PETER, dance with Katye Coe

Today we danced with Katye Coe. To get in touch with Katye’s work visit https://www.katyecoe.org or https://www.seauk.org.uk/directories/katye-coe-somatic-experiencing-practitioner-and-ait/

References

Transcript

Transcript

PETER: Okay, good morning. Um, welcome to Peter Dance with Katye, Katye Coe. Good morning, Katye Coe, how are you?

Katye Coe: Good morning. Yeah, well. I feel like I should say that we're sitting in a...

PETER: Yeah.

Katye Coe: In my living room.

PETER: Yeah. And we're sort of starting here because, in a way, the thing you're sharing is part of where you live in a part of your world. And we've met in Stockholm at different events. I mean, you're such an amazing figure. Been connected to Frank Bock, who I know really well. But if people don't know you, what do you, what do you call yourself?

Katye Coe: Oh, yeah, I call myself, um... Mostly, I call myself a dance worker.

PETER: Yeah, that's nice. The work is really important to do with sort of workers' movement and workers' rights.

Katye Coe: Uh. Yeah. I think so, and actually, yeah, there's an organization that I'm involved in, which is called the Freelance Dance Workers, and when we set it up, it kind of made me feel more, uh, at home in myself. It's like, yeah, I'm a dance worker and actually it also means that when I'm dancing or teaching or rehearsal directing or working with people one to one. I can be I'm a dance worker in all of those uh, capacities, I suppose.

PETER: Yeah, because you do sort of therapeutic work as well, so then it fits within that umbrella a little bit.

Katye Coe: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so I'm a dance worker and I... have been a dance worker for... Uh, 30 years? 32 years. I said 20 for many years, and then something kind of... Oh, yeah. Oh, actually, it's 30. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then, I'm excited that you're here, partly because, uh, this place, and this... Um, well, this house, but also this, this situation of being an old town and being, uh, almost next door to Wainsgate Dances is still quite new for me. It's like the newest, the newest additional iteration of, um... Yeah, where I do, where I do stuff and how I do stuff. Um, and it's been really brilliant to have you here for a couple of days.

PETER: Thank you. Can we say where we are?

Katye Coe: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

PETER: We're in Hebden Bridge. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. Well, actually, we're in Old Town, which is... It's up the hill from Hebden Bridge. So...

PETER: So you get the light. I love that, what you said yesterday. We were on a walk and you said, oh, this because we're up the hill from the valley. We get the light, whereas in Hebden Bridge itself, it's a bit darker.

Katye Coe: Yeah, and hopefully, um, yeah, after we've been in the studio, uh, I'm hoping that we're also sitting in the house with a kind of storm outside. So we get the light, but we also get the wind.

PETER: Yes. 

Katye Coe: And the weather. You really get the weather up here. But hopefully we'll get we'll walk down.

PETER: Okay, then. Yeah. 

Katye Coe: Later, because, yeah, the walk down into the valley has also become quite an important, uh, I don't know, part of my being here is to go down into the valley and then come back up.

PETER: Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Katye Coe: Yeah, so we're in Old Town. Which is also sometimes called Wadsworth. It's also sometimes called Chiserley, but it is this... Well, collection of houses around what was once Gibson Mill, which was kind of... Um, built in the Industrial Revolution, and, um, I, I, I think, I'm, I'm not sure, but the chapel, where Wainsgate Dances, um, happens, um, was there as a Baptist place of congregation for all of the people that live around here, but also worked in various mills.

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: I don't know, there's something about work. Yeah, yeah. 

PETER: Yeah. No, I mean, and you've had, like you say, a 30 year career, you've been a rehearsal director, you've been in dance companies, touring, and you've done a lot of work, and it's interesting. Yeah. to see how now this is a part of your work and it's a life in a lot of ways. We've been talking a bit about dance and Alva Noë and different things that I've been thinking about recently, but yeah, it's integrated somehow. Maybe that, that, the best one way to describe that is what we're going to do today. If that's fair to say.

Katye Coe: Yeah, um, so it's really generous and brilliant that you could come, and we could, like that, if this could also be in the rhythm of, uh, yeah, a day when practice begins at 9 o'clock and um, yeah, part of the reason that I moved here, um, is because of what happens at Wainsgate and what has been happening at Wainsgate for a while and my friend Charlie Morrissey among others...

PETER: How you might meet later?

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we will absolutely meet him, and, um... Yeah, he and Rob and others in this place have been developing, um, a kind of curatorial, but also a community presence for dance and dancing, and other things there. Um, and in lockdown, uh, or just before lockdown, um, they, they started to, um, have this daily practice Monday to Friday, 9 till 10 with a playlist. Um, in, in the Sunday school room at the chapel, um, called Open Practice. And, um, and then I think very quickly after that lockdown happened. And I was living in the Midlands and everything stopped. And everything went online, and I went to Open Practice every morning, pretty much, from Kenilworth, from online, yeah.

PETER: So online

Katye Coe: It was all online and there was a huge, it was, sometimes there were like 60 people, 20 people. Of course, from all over the world.

PETER: Yes, of course.

Katye Coe: Um, joining in, uh, this hour-long playlist from living rooms and some people had access to studios and Charlie would often be...

PETER: In the chapel.

Katye Coe: In the chapel in his office. Yeah, so, my experience of Open Practice to begin with was during lockdown, and then various times that I've been up here to do workshops or rehearse with Charlie. Um, Open Practice is the beginning of every day. And it doesn't stop for anything. Okay. Um, I, it's a kind of foundation stone. Um, yeah, the, so if someone's doing, you know, using the space like we are today or a residency or whatever, it doesn't start till 10:15 because Open Practice happens first and the encouragement for any artists that come to do anything here is that they will also join. Um, Open Practice because it also means that you kind of meet.

PETER: Yeah.

Katye Coe: The folk who also come, who are a real mixture of dance enthusiasts, movement enthusiasts, professional dancers, others.

PETER: And is it still online as well?

Katye Coe: No. That stopped. It stopped, and it... it... Yeah, that Charlie would talk about this better, that they're kind of hybrid model, I think is kind of complicated.

PETER: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're either all online or you're all in the room. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

Katye Coe: And now there's a 2nd foundational practice, which has just begun this new year, that happens downstairs, called Open Drawing.

PETER: Yeah.

Katye Coe: And I'd been away and I'd forgotten that it was starting, but so now we have a shared playlist. And people making marks downstairs.

PETER: Yeah, drawing… sketching… drawing...

Katye Coe: Yeah, sketching, right.

Katye Coe: Yeah, it's, it is, um, it's got brackets around it, so it is drawing, it's not sculpture or painting. It's like, yeah, the, the, the skill of drawing or the act of drawing or mark making. And so that happens from 9 till 10. Uh, downstairs because the building is also full of... artists and art enthusiasts. Yeah, so now there's this kind of simultaneous Open Practice happening. Which, yeah, you're gonna come to, and that will start our day off.

PETER: Yeah, that sounds great. And then we'll come back and talk more after.

Katye Coe: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

PETER: And I will find out, I suppose, but are there any rules or protocols that are sort of shared?

Katye Coe: There are. Yeah, for Open Practice, yes. And we have some time in the studio after as well. Yes. Yeah, Open Practice has a kind of list of, uh, how it's a kind of how-to, and those have been developed and kind of honed over the years of it happening. Um, mostly kind of edited and designed by a group of us who all kind of share the running of Open Practice. Um, and I guess it comes from the lockdown. I don't know if Charlie's ever thought about this, but some of those rules come from the lockdown period. Which is this is your own... this is to dance in your own way, in your own practice. Um, in your own space. So you set up, you know, often people use mats and you, yeah, you set up somewhere in the room and you kind of stay there. You don't travel around or uh, yeah, or be in direct relationship to anyone else. Some people bring their little ones sometimes. That's different, obviously. They've got, they've got babes in arms or small ones, then they share space, but, um, yeah, all of the adults are encouraged to, yeah, stay in their own lane, basically.

PETER: Interesting.

Katye Coe: Um, yeah, and that, I, just as a dancer, that's been really, um, good for me to understand how to practice without, like, having the whole space to move through.

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, and you can do whatever you want to, you know, you can lie on the floor and stretch and you can really move to the music. You can sob. 

PETER: Yeah I suppose because it is, you're provided your own space, it allows for actually, within that space, you can do whatever, whatever determined.

Katye Coe: Yeah, and you're welcome. People arrive later. They or they need to leave early. It's also fine. Um, there's a school in Old Town, a primary school, and a couple, you know, few people come some days, who've just dropped their children at school, so they come a few minutes late, or the bus brings them late. Yeah, and for me it's become... when I'm here, mostly, that's how I start my day.

PETER: Yeah. Great. Well, we shouldn't be late, so...

Katye Coe: Yeah.

PETER: Let's pause here.

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Part 2

PETER: Yeah, because we've already been, um... 

Katye Coe: alongside…

PETER: alongside and had so many things come up. Yeah, so we're back.

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: And we have, it's maybe how many hours is it? A couple of hours since we last spoke.

Katye Coe: Yeah, two and a half, yeah. 

PETER: We walked through the storm. 

Katye Coe: Yeah we did. …Yeah

PETER: And then we warmed up, and the playlist started. And, uh, many people came. I thought it was a lot, but you said it was a bit of a quieter day.

Katye Coe: It's a quieter day. I sense, probably, partly because of the storm. We're in something called... What did you say, Chandra?

PETER: Chandra, yeah. I think so. 

Katye Coe: There's a musician called Sheila Chandra, who I often play in my playlist, if it's mine. But her music is not so stormy. Yeah, so we came over to Wainsgate Chapel and upstairs, we're sitting in the Sunday schoolroom. 

PETER: It's beautiful. There's big windows. There's a stained glass window. The paint is flaking from the ceiling a little bit, and it's a beautiful, varnished wooden floor. And outside, there are two pheasants, which were accompanying me through the whole dance. We were on opposite sides of the room, and, of course, we stayed in our sort of pockets. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, I mean, because it was quieter, I could catch you, like, I was catching sight of you in, um, in, in there and, um, yeah, I guess there were 7, um, well, and you got a touch of the oldest and the youngest today.

PETER: Yes. 

Katye Coe: Probably, I think that's the oldest and the youngest, kind of, on Earth, regular people, Julia, who's, who always sits there. 

PETER: To our right?

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah. Um, I think Julia's in her mid 80s. 

PETER: Wow. 

Katye Coe: Um, and is pretty... yeah, comes most days.

PETER: with a… she had a stick, a walking stick.

Katye Coe: Yeah, she has a stick. 

PETER: And she has a chair. Yeah. To sort of...

Katye Coe: Yeah, and she's a real kind of dance fan.

PETER:  Yes, yes, you were speaking of Matthew Bourne., when we came.

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah, she loves Matthew Bourne and Akram Khan. That kind of side. She's really active. Um, and, uh, yeah, I'm inspired by, among others, Julia's kind of place in the world, like, she's, she's definitely down at the traffic lights on the pro-Palestine roadsides, as often as she can be. Um, and then George (George Fellows) came, um, he was a...

PETER: Yes, a young, young child.

Katye Coe: With a young child, and George, I think George is a dancer. Okay. Um, I think it's true, maybe a street kind of street dance specialist, but he might hear this and tell me differently.

PETER: It looked like he was doing yoga. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And he came for two years with his older child, who's now gone to school, and so he's now introducing his younger child, and they often come for a short amount of time, but it will grow, and gradually, they'll be here for the whole hour.

PETER: Oh, wow. 

Katye Coe:Um, yeah. 

PETER: And what was nice was the relationship between them, 'cause I was right next to them, and the child was asking the dad to continue doing something, asking George, I should say. Or not like that, do that again.

Katye Coe: Oh, yeah, Choreography. Yeah, in the best possible way. 

PETER: Really that two-year-old, it's sort of, like, mindset of, like, no, this is how we're going to do it. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah. 

PETER: Doing it for me. I don't care what you want. 

Katye Coe: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, so I love that sort of inspiration, and there are maybe two or three little ones who come with a caregiver, some type, but George is regular, and, yeah, George is actually one of the people, um, he, he would only be able to do it on a Tuesday, but he often runs a playlist. Okay. On a Tuesday, and he used to, his eldest used to choose some of the tracks for the playlist, so we'd often get, like, something from Mulan or something from Oliver Twist. Oh, these brilliant things, and I really love the Spice Girls. Um, and, yeah, maybe there's something to say about Charlie, um, being, of course, like the main space-holder, and if he's here, Charlie is the DJ, as well.

PETER: Yeah.

Katye Coe: And when Charlie's away, there's a kind of group of us that, um, sort of on a rotor, or whenever we're available, we'll do the job of opening up the space and, um, uh, providing a playlist and sort of just holding. As you can see, very softly holding the space.

PETER: Yeah, so today, Charlie was the one creating and playing the playlist and am I right in understanding he has it online as well? So it's also possible to...

Katye Coe: Yeah, all his—I mean, there must be 100s now—um, of Charlie’s Spotify playlists, and you can, if you just go to Charlie Morrissey, you find all of them, including, actually, the ones that most of the rest of us produce, sometimes we just send them to Charlie, and he publishes them as well. And, yeah, the group of us is me, and Charlie, and the other Charlie, you met downstairs. Yeah. He has his studio here. 

PETER: One of the rooms off of the Sunday school.

Katye Coe:Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's four...

PETER: Pink doors.

Katye Coe: Four pink doors that look kind of like, almost like, I was thinking they look like a children's TV set.

PETER: Yes. 

Katye Coe: But they are some of the artist studios. Um, which reminds me, Peter, that there's possibility of interruption.

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe:  is part of being here. So, if...

PETER: Of course. 

Katye Coe: If one of the—I just noticed Charlie's door is unlocked, so he may well...

PETER: Be back.

Katye Coe: Be back with his, uh, yeah, uh, drawing stuff at some point. So, Charlie trained at Middlesex—Charlie Ford, this is the guy who met downstairs—trained at Middlesex, but is an art visual artist. A really, um, brilliant, um...

PETER: Did you know each other when you were studying at Middlesex?

Katye Coe: No, no, no. He is much younger than me. Um, and he, his parent, yeah, he was born quite near here, I think, and came back. And his partner, Lucy Suggate, is another dancer, choreographer, she, um, is part of the, part of the group of us, I suppose, who, in some way, I think, particularly Lucy, um, sort of support this space and how it's evolving. And then there's someone else called Caroline, who's a Feldenkrais practitioner. She also runs playlists. So there's, I'm naming a few people as the kind of folk who take care of this morning that happens, and then there's a wider community you met Maya yesterday.

PETER: Yeah.

Katye Coe: And every time I sit on this floor, actually, I really remember me and Maya doing a varnishing afternoon, 'cause it took several days to revarnish this floor. When we came back into the building after the renovations earlier this year. And, yeah, there was a whole gang of us that were sanding and varnishing. Hello. Uh, that's Charlie Ford walking through. We were just talking about you.

PETER: Only positives, 

Charlie Ford: In a good way. Yeah.

Katye Coe: Yeah. Yeah.

PETER: Yeah, so if we go through what we did...  So we've arrived in the space. And there is this... We have mats that we were all lying with.

Katye Coe: Yeah, most people choose to have mats because the floor is chilly. 

PETER: But it also aids this, because we were speaking to Charlie just now, like, it found a little bit of its shape through the pandemic, as we think we said before. 

Katye Coe: This online version.

PETER: Yeah, so we all have our little spaces, which, at the beginning, would define a bit by the mats and then...

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: Gradually, the mats got taken to the side.

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: And it's all non-verbal. There wasn't any, "okay, warm up over, we starting now..."

Katye Coe: Oh, no. It's...

PETER: The music starts playing. Yeah. And then, at some point, I realized, okay, this is what we're doing. This is it. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. Yeah. It's really sort of unannounced. Um... and even as a newcomer, you, I think, you kind of got the gist of it.

PETER: Yeah.

Katye Coe: So you can kind of vicariously pick up how Open Practice kind of works. Um... I mean, you also have a knowledge of what it is to be in a dance studio, so you kind of...

I trust... trust... I would get it, but, yeah... 

PETER: but with some of the more, the people who aren't dancing as much as we are, maybe, does, do you or Charlie give them a little bit more information? 

Katye Coe: When if newcomers?

PETER: Yeah, yeah, if they're new, of course, 

Katye Coe: Yeah yeah, newcomers, if they don't come accompanied by someone who—'cause people bring people. But if they come on their own, whoever's holding the space, or one of us, will often kind of indicate where the mats are, let people know to set themselves up, and on the door out there, is the list of "this is what I've been practicing." This is how it works, and that's on the website as well. Yeah, people can read through that and it's like, oh, okay, so you just get on with your own stuff. No one's going to tell you what to do. It's okay to do whatever you want to do within the parameters of...

PETER: And the people really make the—we were discussing this already a little bit—but the people really make the practice of that day. They make the Open Practice of that day. It reminds me of sort of what I know of like Quaker sort of church…

Katye Coe: Meetings.

PETER:  meetings. Exactly. Because I've been to one, and I remember, you know, you walk in, you sit down, and you sit in silence, and then, at some point, you decide, I've been there long enough, and you get up, and you leave.

Katye Coe: Yeah.

PETER: And there's a little bit of a texture of that, a quality that people enter, they know what to do. They lie down, and then when they're ready, they get up and leave.

Katye Coe: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and I guess that's also the shape of the arc of the hour. If, if, if I'm thinking about this, it's like, you're in, uh, you're in the shape of an hour, and you don't have to think about it, because the music's gonna stop. And usually, I mean, I know enough about the way that the arcs of the playlist work is, like, usually the energy generally of the music, the kind of, you know, increases, not always. And then it stops and then it's finished. And there's often a thank you, but there's no kind of round of applause or... And I really, you know, one of the best things about being here, doing whatever I'm doing, I was really thinking about this morning is that you and Charlie were talking a bit about freedom. I can really, really dance. Like, I can really be, I can dance so I can, I can dance in whatever capacity feels kind of available for that morning. And no one's really taking any notice.

PETER: Yeah, yeah

Katye Coe: Um, and sometimes I really, I really feel like I'm really, like, wow, I'm, like, full. Um, and it's, and I, I sort of know that I might be giving some energy out, or, like, so, you know, often I pick up from someone like Charlie, or maybe a bit more today, you, and maybe I do pick up often from the other dancing folk in the space, 'cause sometimes I need a catalyst or a bit of... yeah. But mostly, I get a sense that I am not influencing or making other people feel in any way conscious of what they are or not, or they're not doing.

PETER: Yeah.

Katye Coe: And that's really unusual.

PETER: It is, it is, and this, because normally when we're dancing, we're doing it for a choreographer or for a performance, a production that we're making. There's an intention behind it. And there's something about—and even if the same we took a class or something, a one-off workshop or improvisation class—you feel like, oh, this is my opportunity. So you want to make the most of it. There's something about the regularity, the consistency, that you can come back tomorrow and dance again or next week. That it's always there as a sort of staple. And there must be, yeah, a real relief, because of course, I was still negotiating, like, this is my opportunity to be with you and to bring what I'm working with or what... what I need to work on. And, of course, I have productions in my head. Oh, should I be focusing on that? And so on. But the lack of like direction, verbally, and the freedom of the space, like you say, and the conditions, perhaps, and also the shared, the sharing of that conditioning as well, right? There are other people committing to this moment to not exchange, even, there wasn't even a conversation after, "how was it? What kind of dancing were you doing?" Even though that's kind of what we're doing now.

Katye Coe: Right, yeah, it's really funny, like, the content somehow, it, the content of what I'm doing is, it's at once, absolutely important, and two nonconsequent—like, without consequence or importance at all. Yeah. My head just went somewhere from quite a long time ago, and maybe, because, um, Chrysa Parkinson, uh, made a kind of animated film on practice.

PETER: Yes.

Katye Coe: Which I still feel like... feels like yesterday, but actually, it's really quite a long time ago, probably now. Um, that I uh, wrote about and loved and taught with, um, as I often, in teaching spaces, that I'm not in so much anymore, but when I was working with students regularly, um, there was often this kind of question of like, how do you develop a practice? And I found her, um, actually, I used to set it as a task. It's like, this, you're going to make a self-interview on what you feel like, is, you know, has good agitation for you in practice right now, but I was rethinking about that in terms of how I might still somehow subconsciously be really referencing some of the things that she refers to in that self-interview. And that, in a way, how I sometimes navigate Open Practice. I could, like, relate to a sort of self-interview.

PETER: Yes. Yes, yes.

Katye Coe: Because there's no one else to interrogate, or reflect with, or discuss, and she has this—I might misremember this—but there is a part of that interview where she refers to practice as training. So if she's preparing for something, she, I think she named skipping, um, you know, if she was preparing for something that required a certain endurance or a certain buoyancy, she would, that would be her thing that she did that day, and it was skipping or that week or... yeah. Um, and I definitely know that if I know I've got a particular week ahead, or I'm, you know, I'm preparing for a tour or a performance, or then I will do something different, or I will, uh, use the hour, perhaps in a preparatory way. Yeah. But if it's just the kind of maintenance hour or a practice hour, yeah, I think I am, like, really interviewing myself through physicality, and affect.

PETER: Yeah.

Katye Coe: Through that hour.

PETER: Yeah, and in fact, at school, that some, that, that was something that sort of could exist. Like, it would be often a question that I would give, or I would hear, in school contexts, where you'd be invited to, almost interview the body, or interview the self, of like, what are you busy with today? What's the body carrying with it? What's what's important, this moment? Yeah.

Katye Coe: Yeah. Yeah. And how do I sit or not sit because I'm moving, but how do I sort of sit in the fact of that? And then you also, there was something else I wanted to just mention in relation to being in class. Being in class also infers a particular way of seeing and being seen, which, in the best scenario, is really brilliant, because, of course, as dancers, we're also practicing to be seen, so, uh, it's important, but there's something about the lack of focused witness. In these, um, in these kind of companionable hours that I come here and do this, that feels kind of, um, yeah, it's like self-authorial.

PETER: Yeah.

Katye Coe: It's like, oh, no, this is just for me to sit and be with what feels like it's arriving.

PETER: And what's really striking is, I think, as I've taught how to make a practice or, talked around practice, and also tried creating my own practices for myself. And I think, like, in thinking around practice, I've always felt that if one can establish a practice and have a regularity, to be questioning and creating, one provides themselves the sort of space and knowledge through which to then draw from later. Gives them a sort of, like, control of their work, you know, in one way or another. But it's really hard. its just like…

Katye Coe: Its really, bloody hard. 

PETER: Like, when you're alone, and... there are emails to check, there is... 

Katye Coe: oh, there's all kinds of distractions. 

PETER: Yeah. Yeah. life. food TV, internet, scrolling, like, it works. Um... so, what's really interesting to hear is, actually, how, uh, you moving here, the, the dance, um, uh, space, Wainsgate Dance, and the chapel, the room, the community, and the initiation, the holding, uh, all those things provide us a container within which it's possible to go into dance. And of course, it's restricted, isn't it? There's only so much you can do within this hour, within a certain site of space. However, it's sort of open enough and generative enough to really provide something that the playlist has enough variation and sort of direction. And then also the thing of the people, they're bringing their life that day, even if it's someone you know, and you were speaking about people who were missing, and yet they still sort of echo in that relationship. And then also visiting artists like myself, of course. I imagine just provide just enough of direction or encouragement, or motivation, or holding or...

Katye Coe: It's like an intervention. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. I think visitors, especially when they're dance artists, are also, they're an intervention, or an intravention. Karen Barad, I remembered. Karen Barad is the person I was thinking about yesterday in relation to intra, rather than inter. I can't remember in which context, but I felt important to remember.

PETER:  She's the one who works with quantum… Physics.

Katye Coe: Physics, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

PETER: Yeah.

Katye Coe: Yeah, and I'm really glad you mentioned the kind of thing about doing it on your own. Uh, I've, I've just worked out over the years and I used to give myself a really hard time about it. I'm not very good at practicing on my own. Um, and I really, I think I really spent a long time giving myself a very hard time about it, because some people really are. Yeah, our friend Matthias is, like, really amazing at, like, being in the studio alone and just, um, there's an introversion or an internalism that he has. Um, but there's also something that I can do on my own when I'm alongside. 

PETER: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Katye Coe: There's this brilliant kind of, like, it's almost like a liminal space, which is, like, oh, I've got enough information in my brain and my body after this many years of doing this thing that I don't... I like input, but I will choose when I want input nowadays. But I'm here, and so something, I'm implicated in my practice, because someone's next to me, and someone's over there, and someone's over there. So I kind of have to do it. Not that it ever feels like I have to, 'cause I pitch up, but I'm held in the sort of responsibility of getting on with practice when I'm alongside, and I don't check emails, I don't go on my phone, I don't... I just go through that hour. Um... 

PETER: Yeah.It's also, like daily practice can so often then turn into exercise, conditioning, and so on. Whereas this has—it retains the creativity if one needs that.

Katye Coe: Yeah, 

PETER: They sort of return to you. 

Katye Coe: I agree, absolutely, because, yeah, there are other things, of course, that, uh, I need to do, too, like... and I was just thinking about alongside-ness, and, like, if I swim, which is one of my go-tos, um, these days for kind of conditioning, I suppose, or, like, you know, uh, accompaniment to this space. I'm also alongside.

PETER: Yes.

Katye Coe: Like, when I go to the pool and the lanes are open, I'm not getting input. I'm not going to a swimming lesson, or an aqua aerobics...

PETER: Or "you, do more backstroke."

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah. That kind of thing. I'm going up and down, but I'm also... alongside again. So I don't just get in the pool and sort of, you know, float about or...

PETER: No, absolutely.

Katye Coe: Although, that would be nice sometimes, but I'm implicated into the activity, partly because I'm in this space of being alongside, and I don't go with someone.

PETER: Yeah.

Katye Coe: But there are other people there. And interestingly, the other thing that I do sometimes is run or practice outside, and I can do those things on my own. I wonder if there's a difference between being out...

PETER: Yeah.

Katye Coe: And being in... not really thought about it like that before, but there's a sense that I'm not on my own when I... step out of the door with my trainers on. I'm already...

PETER: I mean, at least my experience, maybe just to see if I can find out, but it's like an adventure. There's a mission. One has to get to a place, and then you're in the place, and you have to sort of survive almost.

Katye Coe: Exactly. 

PETER: And a lot of the practice in sort of a wild or wet and sort of outdoor space is meeting all the conditions of the weather and the ground. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, being there. Yeah.

PETER: Yeah. Trying to...

Katye Coe:Yeah. Yeah, I was I was just in... I love going out, running with someone, but I...

PETER: Whereas the dance studio, you can just come and lie on the floor and fall asleep. It's so warm and comfortable. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

PETER: And there's nothing to prompt you, to continue negotiating, to see the situation, maybe. 

Katye Coe: I wonder, yeah, I wonder also, this might be to kind of off, um, off-piste, but I keep thinking about him and, you know, we're mammals, so we're relational beings, and, um, there's something about, like, running outside or being in landscape, for example, where I am in relationship, um, and if I come to Open Practice, from 9 till 10 in the morning, I'm also carried in relationship. 

PETER: Yeah, yeah. 

Katye Coe: Um, it's not something that I'm intentionally attending to. But that alongside-ness is nevertheless relational. Um, and you took, you know, you were speaking earlier about your work with babies, and, you know, that work is, um, relational, but not, um, attentional with a capital A.

PETER: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. There has to be a sort of forgivingness. I mean, sometimes it slips into, when trying to talk about the baby work, like, is it participatory? That the children are participating, but I don't think you can really call it that because the babies aren't doing something you want them to do.

Katye Coe: No

PETER: They're not participating in something. You're just allowing them to... 

Katye Coe: Be present 

PETER: Be Present as they need, and then I tried to be alongside that with the dance. But it's so nice, this two sort of spaces and being alongside, like when you're outside, you're very much alongside the weather and the nature and the environment. And then here, you're also, there's an alongside, so it's really an integral thing. And I wonder, because I was very interested in how you spoke about your role as a dancer, and dancer's—a dancer's agency—and perhaps there's a question around how does the authority of being alongside things function, and maybe in relationship to freedom, in fact, there's an... there feels as though there is something about... exactly… you're not, you're not being imposed upon, but at the same time, you are taking care of those that you're in relationship to, a type of freedom that hasn't an ethics incorporated into it.

Katye Coe: Yeah, I'm just gonna check. I've heard you write. 

Yeah. I've said a lot of you. 

Katye Coe: No, so are you referring to... the... places that might feel authorial and free, or free, freer, in this space, in this Open Practice space, or in the space of dancing in general?

PETER: Yeah, in general.

Katye Coe: Yeah. I'm speaking about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was just thinking about imposters syndrome. And, uh, I don't know why it jumped in there, but I think I was thinking about Open Practice and how I mostly feel... free to be dancing... free to be dancing. In this space, which I think might even have... feel a bit different to being a dancer, or being a dance worker. Even though I feel like practice, like, this morning, is super adjacent to, and often, like, really woven in with... my work as a dance worker, or my work as a... a dancer. But there's something that I learn along the way, which is to do with, um... a kind of slow disintegration of, uh, proving anything. 

PETER: Mm hmm. 

Katye Coe: I can't believe I'm, like, in my 50s and still kind of back. Oh, I'm just, like, there's, even though I can really resist that in a good way, or, like, I can still get a sense. I get a sense lesson less that I am doing something or being something different. When I enter this space. For mentoring a rehearsal, studio, or... even a performance. situation. Of course, I'm dealing with things that are much more specific. in terms of instructions, or scores, or whatever it might be, but I, my sense is that I get closer and closer to, um, a human being who does dancing, um, Where wherever and however the invitation is, or whatever the invitation is. Yeah. I don't know if that even touches the question that you ask, but... there's something... 

PETER: think it does. 

Katye Coe: Something that's surviving, that it doesn't feel quite formed yet, but it's like, oh, yeah, there's a... There's a something that sometimes I still have to get over. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: That's true. of when I'm asked to do something for something. And I, the circumstances are that I will midwife ideas, because that's what I set up in my own circumstances in order to be available for a choreographer or for an artist who's working with me. And then there's, like, a... there's a... Uh, it's like I've got to get over a hill of something, in order to really know that what I bring is, uh, what I bring when I come into the room ready. is enough. 

PETER: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. The dynamic of the relationship is so, I mean, I'm sort of unpacking my role as a dancer, still, and I really resonate with that sense of, like, trying to prove something, where, in this situation, there's also, there's something really generous that's given by having it such an Open Practice that people who don't identify as dancers, or don't have dances, their main activity, they do, are also able to attend, and it brings a lot of, a lot of information and value, sort of valuing, revaluing of qualities and movements that perhaps, if we were all professionals. 

Katye Coe: Mm hmm. 

PETER: we wouldn't have in the same way. And, of course, it also brings the thing of the conventions that often are frustrating when meeting people who don't have dancers, they're sort of daily practice. of like there has to be music or that it has to be movement. It has to be dynamic. You know, sort of the, the, the things that sometimes can be irritating because, because as alongside it being open and saying, you're more than welcome to attend people who don't have dancers of professional practice, maybe. But we're gonna do what we do. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: Regardless of you being here, but you're more than welcome to stay, and there's something super generous about that alongsidedness. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: That, it, it doesn't compromise, it doesn't say that, actually, as a professional, today, I'm just gonna work with my spleen and, and lie very still, and, and that's fine. It doesn't compromise that need and desire to sort of, sort of, try to provide extra motivation or... to tick the boxes of what is assumed to be dance, maybe. Yeah. And vice versa. And it means that it allows that people that are coming from outside of the dance field. Maybe they are working with something that we wouldn't imagine to work with, and we can lend from that. We can sort of brush up against that and be with that. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, and I think probably, well, hopefully, they brush up against, you know, your spleen or whatever. 

PETER: Yes, yes, I think. They must, right? We're so interconnected. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, the porosity, I think, and particularly for people that come enough to kind of get to know what it's like to be here. Um, I guess, because the other thing is, it's like, this is a space where no one's watching, but this is also a space where eyes are open. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: Usually, 

PETER: yeah. 

Katye Coe: You know, like, of course, people close their eyes at the beginning, or, like, sometimes, if they need to, but, um, there's a porosity to presence, which, uh, yeah, which I really enjoy, and Charlie, I'm really mindful of something Charlie said this morning when we were chatting before. After Open Practice, and he said, Sometimes I just look, and I see, and it's, like, the best improvisation ever. And there are, there is something that, sometimes I, if I am, you know, a bit more kind of witnessy, if I'm in a corner, or I see, or I feel something, I do get this thing where it's like, wow, like, everyone should see this. You know, so there are these moments where you just sort of go, Wow, this is a composition that could never be made. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: And it has it all, and, of course, the very crux of that is that it isn't. 

PETER: Yeah. Yeah. 

Katye Coe: But it doesn't stop it from being kind of... sort of fantastic, you know? Because it's like I can't magic the unicorn up. The white horse. He's, I'm sure, he's in his stable around the corner, but there's, there's also kind of magicness that you can't, um, it's, it's the same in Landscape. You can't magic the magic, the magic comes, passes by. if and when it, if, if you spend enough time practicing there, wherever there is, whether it's in, it's, or it's in this room, 9 to 10, Monday to Friday, or whether it's... And I feel like there's something that, uh, you said and that maybe we were talking about time. 

PETER: Well, giving a chance, I was thinking about, that, because in my baby performances, it's, like, three hours long. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: And obviously, we assume that a child doesn't have a long attention. However, by giving three hours, you give the chance for something to occur. The chance for attention to wander and come back. And by remaining consistent and somehow stable, it provides exactly as you're saying, like openings into coincidence and beauty that you can't really conjure up. You can't prove in a way. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, I feel like often in processes, like research, research and development processes, or processing, pre-production. I think it's probably different in Sweden. Maybe, or Finland, or wherever, but we, I think the opportunity for those collisions of brilliants to happen, um, just often have to be kind of forced, because it's two weeks or three weeks, and they're not always together, like, Yeah, so that... As dancers, we pitch up with a lot of kind of ready to go ness so that it's more likely that those chances are more... possible. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: And hopefully, choreographers or artists do that, too, but it's limited by time and resource, in a way that somehow I experience in this room, in the mornings, it's not limited. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: I mean, of course, like, the heating's on, and there's, you know, speakers, and there are people. But it's all operated by, you know, people leave a donation. And, um, we all run it voluntarily, 'cause the reciprocity is really, I think, everyone's, who's listening to this has got that by now. Like, the reciprocity is so generous. It's like, but it doesn't have a limitation of... an end thing. Like, an end product or an end of process or an end of... which holds, it's my experience of it, it gets held in a, in a way that I don't know... apart from outdoor practice, uh, I'll describe a Sit Spot in a minute, and, um, apart from that, I don't think I've, I don't think I know. in my body... Uh, so well, as I do now, because I've been here for... two years and... I've been doing this thing now. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: Um... 

PETER: And it… I mean it is also the thing, isn't it, that if, if you would put a price on it, it changes it. So it's, I'm so fascinated by these like subtle choreographies that sort of, they act upon the work, regardless how much a choreographer tries, maybe to shield or protect the process from something like the fact that there are ticket sales. They could, or even it's performed at a place which is hard to get to for some people. That acts upon the, upon the, the piece. There's something beautiful, because, of course, there's still barriers to entry here. Like, it's up a hill. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: Even, there are stairs. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. Yeah, we don't have a lift yet. 

PETER: Yeah, it's in the middle of the Yorkshire moors, sort of thing. And, uh... But, but there's something about that you lean into those things. They're sort of acknowledged and recognized and sort of accepted. It's also that thing of, I can imagine, and I feel like you've even said it, that some people come and say, oh, can't we do something that's, I don't know, more of a normal dance class? 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: Could you, could you do some samba? 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: And even that tone of like you're making this very closed, elitist by only having it with this playlist. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: and not having it as a 5 rhythms or having it as another dance class space. And yet, by sort of leaning into those conditions, you are also providing a very specific space and need. That's important, because even though it's a very open, it's very free, right? There's a freedom to it. And there's an importance of keeping the edges specific, so that it can maintain the uniqueness of that openness, rather than allowing it being cooperated by everything else. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's definitely not a kind of. Yeah, I agree, and I think Charlie, I'm one of the wonderful things about watching him and being alongside parts of the development of this, is that he's really honed it, you know, with Lucy and others. It's been honed to actually, interestingly, what you're saying is something that is also quite specific. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: It has now a very embedded and embodied set of circumstances that is kind of unquestioned mostly. It maybe was questioned more so, you know, several years ago, but, um, and also that most of those things happen nearby, um, and this, you know, you could, there are workshops here, and that kind of thing, but for my perspective, as a dancer, um, I have learned... as much about my practice in this non led space. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: That I keep showing up to, than I have in any other thing, and it's interesting. I think I said earlier, it's like, oh, you don't get input. here, and that's really great. I love, you know, for, not for the, always, I'm coming to a workshop this weekend, and I'm often getting input when I'm in a rehearsal space, and, um, in other kinds of training spaces, but, it is, that's not true. Actually, there's a lot of input that happens, but it's much, it's not about instructions or conversation, verbal conversation. The input is self, you know, go back to Chrysa's self interview. It's like, I'm checking and attending to myself in this particular set of circumstances in a way that... Uh... has implications for what I learn and understand. And I just, I wanted to mention that also, um, in two quite significant processes, that I've done recently, Matthias's group piece for Neurolive, and the rerehearsal of the duet, and also, as well, Roberta Jean's process that was a long, slow one since lockdown. The invitation to have an hour... In those situations, I was so welcome, and all we would often come together and do something at the end of the hour, so that we could feel each other in the space, 'cause it was a group work. But this kind of hour long something, like, starts to feel very... 

PETER: Because you would do Open Practice before you went into rehearsals. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, pretty much. Matthias would borrow one of Charlie's playlists. 

PETER: Okay. 

Katye Coe: Or I will put it on, or someone. So there was a... and Matthias is rehearsed here, and so I had other people that were in the work. So there's this kind of, like, um, and, and in that situation, we're working with a mature group of practitioners who, who also know how to get on with it. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: I think if you're working with, like, I was just thinking again about students and how amazing it would be. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: To have a three year program where the first day of the day was... 

PETER: Open Practice. 

Katye Coe: Was Open Practice? 

PETER: And it is, I was also, I think, the Self Interview is a really good way of describing the experience I had, because we haven't really spoken so much about it, but in tangential ways, we have, but definitely, that was one of the things of, like, um, rooting through myself and where I am, where physical body is, and what I remember, what I, like thoughts that come up like, oh, let's try that. Let's work with that, and then I work with that, and then I’m like, ah, and then I, and maybe I'm ignoring the music for that, and then at some point, the music comes in and like, oh, I could follow that. And then I find myself doing that. And then I see someone doing a sort of rhythm or step or quality of stretch or something. And that sort of filters in. And then I'm asking constantly myself, like, what am I doing? What is it? I mean, I, one of the practices I brought with me was one I call, “is this it?” And I literally ask myself, like, do I do I recognize what I'm doing right now? And do I, how, what is the thing I'm doing right now? How is it performing? How am I understanding it? If I move it, if I shift it, is it still the same? How does it alter? What is the itness of this moment and things? Yeah, how was it for you? Because, of course, this is just one day in 100s for you. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, um. 

PETER: I mean, you mentioned that I affected it, but I imagine everyone. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, I mean, I think your presence, yeah, it was interesting. Charlie gave the prompt of, like, going somewhere, going somewhere unfamiliar, 'cause he's aware that, you know, not you, but for those of us that come here regularly, it's like, you know, I tend to be along that wall. Along the stage. I know. It's just... And it isn't... it isn't because... Well, I like it there, and it's near the unicorn when he comes past me. And I was like, Oh, yeah, I'm next to Peter. Um, and then there was this prompt, and, um, because Jess, who wasn't here today often, is in this space. 

PETER: Yeah, where, you ended up. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, I was like, Oh, okay, I'm gonna go in that space. And if Jess comes, I'm gonna, like, really say hello to her and let her... Um, yeah, uh, so I was kind of in Jess's place. Or, like, swapping places and suddenly I was like, oh, there's this big diagonal between us. Um... Yeah, so I think, like, I began with... a slightly different set of circumstances in that you're here. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: I'm here, and I think I was aware of, kind of, wondering who was gonna come in today. In a way that I probably wouldn't normally... 

PETER: Yeah, 'cause you're showing... 

Katye Coe: I'm kind of showing you. Yeah, yeah, I'm demonstrating. Yeah. And so I was like, Oh, great, George is here. And great. Julia's here, and, um, and then, yeah, like, and then sort of, you know, a few minutes in, I get busy with, uh, an injured hip, and like this, and that, and, you know, um, and, I mean, all sorts comes through the hour. I was in this space quite a lot last week because another person who I'm working with Kieran was here, and so his kind of, the kind of ghost of Kieran was here, and then, I think, I said, like, I started to notice who wasn't here, and it's, like, I'm often really inspired by the qualities of, for example, what Lucy might be up to. Like, if Maya is here, the other dancers who often come, I thought a little, I thought, for a moment about how the playlist was for the drawers downstairs. 

PETER: I also saw thinking about that, because this is new, isn't it? That they're drawing downstairs? 

Katye Coe: Yeah, this is... This is the third week. 

PETER: I was, so... I mean, and that's sort of against the point. I was so, like, I want to see. Oh, no, I see what's coming up. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, I said that to Charlie the other day. I was like, Oh, God, I don't want to show and tell. Not to show, not that they need to see what we're doing, but I have, of course, because I don't count myself as having a drawing practice. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: But I'm aware of, I think there were, like, five or six people downstairs, like, in their own... And in many ways, it hasn't the same rules. It's, like, you come, you have, some basic stuff is provided, but you might bring your own charcoal or whatever it is you're drawing with and you get on with it. And the music is much quieter, but it's the same playlist. And last Friday, we had Rob's playlist. Um, and Rob is an artist doing the drawing downstairs. 

PETER: Wow. 

Katye Coe: So, I'm hopeful, I was thinking about that, and it had a, it still had the same arc, in a way, but it had a different sensibility to it, I think, because, uh, yeah, the practice of drawing is still embodied, but it's like a different... 

PETER: Yes. And it would be so different if they were in the room with us drawing. 

Katye Coe: Right. Us, or... And we've all had that, though. 

PETER: Yes. Yeah. 

Katye Coe: Which I quite like, but it's like, oh, 

PETER: It’s a very different. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah, often if artists are in the space, they're drawing the body's moving. 

PETER: Yes, yes. yeah, yeah. Which is a different thing completely. Yeah. I also wanted to say that Charlie mentioned that, for him, the practice started before this, when he was sort of borrowing from Steve Paxton, who he's worked with a lot, where Steve would dance to the Goldberg variations by Bach. over and over again. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: Just as a way to, as a container, in a way, to sort of hold a practice. And of course, later on this became a performance, I think. But it was improvised all the time. And he was doing the same to Goldberg variations. And then it changed and morphed into the online practice. And the, at some point, I assume he didn't say why, but the playlist changed. But it's interesting to see what it is now, but also in relationship to that history, because, of course, Steve was looking for a way of practicing. 

Katye Coe: Yeah.

PETER:  Which is the same motivation, in a way. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: Now, there's this whole network, which is sort of structured around practice. It reminds me of Deborah Hay's practice. 

Katye Coe: Right. 

PETER: She would return to this same practice day in day. 

Katye Coe: Right, right. And I vicariously feel like I never did Deborah Hay's solo. Commissioning project, but I work with choreographers, significantly Joe, and then Matthias. 

PETER: Yes. 

Katye Coe: Who have done those... 

PETER: Is that Joe? 

Katye Coe: And Amy Morris, actually. Jo Moran... Joe Moran, yeah. Yeah, Amy Morris, and Matthias Sperling, all, like, long term collaborators, who I would... Yeah, you know, frame as people that I've danced with. either currently or historically, for a long time. And they were really influenced by Deborah and did the commissioning project, where you had to practice the work, the solo, you know, you did, however long it is in residency with her, and then the deal is, I think it's an agreement that they all make, is that you practice every day. 

PETER: Hmm. 

Katye Coe: For however many months. And I remember very distinctly, I think I was doing my MA at the time at Siobhan Davies. And, um, Matthias would be in the downstairs studio every morning from 9 till 10, um, doing his Deborah Hay practice. 

PETER: Wow Yeah. 

Katye Coe: And I often wonder if I would have... stuck to that. 

PETER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Katye Coe: But it was a solo practice. Yes. Not accompanied by music. And, yeah, there's also maybe something worth mentioning, which is, you know, I taught class classes in different contexts for many years, and often intermittently use sound. but would never have a whole class to music. Except on the rare occasions, you have an accompanist in the room. 

PETER: Yes. 

Katye Coe: Which is very special and very rare nowadays. I can't remember where that would have happened. Maybe at The Place, a bit. Uh, possibly... maybe a bit at Rambert. Mm hmm. 

PETER: Yeah, Rambert usually has it. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, although I was teaching improvisation, so that would happen in the afternoon. 

PETER: Okay. 

Katye Coe: Because improvisation should happen in the afternoon. Although, I do not call myself an improviser. I do not call myself an improviser, because I feel like a bit like somatic practice. It's been a kind of, it's been associated with particular kind of something, which I'm actually not very skilled at, that kind of instant choice making, that I associate good improvising with, um, I don't do that. I believe when I'm teaching, that I'm teaching technique. It's just not coming from a modality that can be copied or... 

PETER: It’s not counts. It’s scores. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah, and sometimes it looks like really set material because of the exactness of what I'm bringing people towards, and I think, Charlie, if I think about people like Charlie Morrissey and Amy Morris and others, it's the same, but they're the depth of detail embodied detail and philosophical information that I get a sense of in myself, but also experiencing those other people's classes is not. It's not improvisation with capital I. And actually, I can get quite wrong footed in an improvisation score because there's something about instant composition that I... I'm all right at. But it's not my... It's not what I teach. 

PETER: Yeah, yeah. 

Katye Coe: Or turn to. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: But yeah, I just wanted to mention the music because the attending to a playlist, or being with a playlist, often that I haven't chosen. Um... has, like, bought something to me as a jay on that tree, then? 

PETER: Oh, yeah. 

Katye Coe: Um, Yeah, I've bought something to my dancing practice that I think I had, I wasn't doing every day before. 

PETER: Yes. 

Katye Coe: A lot of the time when I'm rehearsing, a lot of the time in performing, I'm not dancing to music. 

PETER: No. 

Katye Coe: Or with music. Especially not kind of, you know, disco. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: And all the other things that get played, you know, sometimes it's Caterina Barbieri, a bit of Bach, and a bit of Russian, you know, folk music, and a bit of, um, you know, Drum and Bass, and a bit of Beyoncé, all that, all that stuff, but to, to, um... To learn how to practice in that sound. has been also really an adventure. 

PETER: Yes. 

Katye Coe: For me, and I, yeah, sometimes I'm like, Am I in a club, or am I in a class, or am I, it's, you know, or am I, it, but it's, uh... It's been a brilliant adventure for my dancing to integrate, um, being in the rhythm, in the, in the nuance of rhythm, in, in the, in the texture of music, in a way that I hadn't consistently experienced for a really long time. I love it, and I also feel far less judgmental than I did when I first started, around what I liked, what I didn't like. 

PETER: Oh, that's good. Yeah. 'Cause it is hard, I think. I think I find it in myself, as well, where there's a sort of irritation of, like, my freedom is being limited by this noise that I can't get rid of. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: Or sound. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: And then the sort of, also the every track, because the track only lasts so long, and then the new tracks start, and there's this like, oh, but I don't want to go here. I was still working with that. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: Or, um, that thing. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

PETER: So that's nice to hear that it has that effect. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, it takes a while. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: And it's only occasional now where I... 

PETER: Which is funny, 'cause as students will be like, Where is the music? I can't work without music, or... 

Katye Coe: Right. 

PETER: If they're making a solo or a choreography. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah. 

PETER: So I chose this piece of music, and the question for me is always, but why that music? What's the reason for it? And they're like, well, it's the, we have to dance to music. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

PETER: I have to dance to music. 

Katye Coe: And also, often when I'm choosing sound for class, uh, I often have a kind of thinking, you know, now, because of Open Practice, for example, Caterina Barbieri was not a composer or musician note I knew before, and I've gone down a kind of rabbit hole of, like, incredible sound. Um, often, like, really big, really long, like, 20 minute tracks. I take information into my teaching with sound now that I, I'm so happy to be sort of DJing, and, like, I'll go, Is it Caterina Barbieri? No, I think it's like, oh, yeah, actually, it's probably, you know, something completely different. And sometimes it's like, really, like, you can't not, um, because I think also historically, I've often, because I train as a Skinner Releasing teacher, Contact, you don't usually work the sound at all. In Skinner, you're finding the music to offer the specific graphic or score too, whereas in here, you're dealing with the music.

PETER: Yeah, yeah. 

Katye Coe: It's not, it's not that, it's not been curated in a way that attends to whatever it is that I am busy with. 

PETER: Yeah, yeah. 

Katye Coe: So you kind of have to grapple with it and deal with it. And yeah, for a few months, I was like, 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: Could somebody put some silence on like that. John Cage. Um, but actually, you kind of eventually move past that in the way that you move past not being able to really, like, cover space and... 

PETER: Yeah, because, I mean, there's always something you're having to deal with. The sort of misnomer of silence is that it's neutral or empty. There's plenty to be listening to. But equally, there are other things that restrict and mold and shape, the movement or the body or the experience that you can't get rid of. Like, I think that, like, I think one of the, I think one of the ones that I was thinking about today was just the limits of flexibility type things. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: This, like, there's a specific range. And if I go into a certain range, I also go into a certain aesthetic as well. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: of overextended or even just more flexible and or even yogic. There are places within the range and the flexibility of movement that echo certain things. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: That can frustrate me as well when I find myself stuck. 

Katye Coe: Right, kind of thing. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

PETER: But, um, you wanted to try sitting. 

Katye Coe: Oh, well, I thought, yeah, if, if we go out... Yeah. Um, yeah, I would... Because, of course, I brought you here, and this is... really important. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: And it actually is a great way to meet in movement. I was like, Oh, it's this. Um, because there's also, but I also recognize that I, they're, in this landscape here, I also have another regular thing that I do that has actually nothing to do with Wainsgate Dance. has nothing to do, but is an, is like an intrinsic part of my, um, facilitation work and work, um... as a dancer, but also as someone who is, um, committed to, uh... yeah, connectivity with a more than human landscape and beings, like, and it's, it's really long, that... that. It's really long, that practice, and this bit living... 

PETER: Something you've done for a long time, or it's a durational thing? 

Katye Coe: No, it's not long. It's 15 minutes. 

PETER: Okay, so... But you've done it for a long time. 

Katye Coe: I haven't asked Sit Spot for so long, so, you know, one of the other things that I do often, um, not as... and often alone, um, so it's not related to performing, although I have done a lot of performing outside. Yeah. But, yeah, I have a practice of moving, or sitting, and then moving, outside, in landscape, or in, often, say people say, Oh, it's in nature. And there's, you know, I don't want to get into it. 

PETER: What is nature? 

Katye Coe: Yeah, I don't want to get into a critique of what nature is, but there is another thing that I do when I'm here, which is, um, connected to, uh, some work that I do with Kinship Workshop, which is, um, an organization that Tom Goodwin arrived probably nine or ten years ago now, and that I've been initially kind of supportive of, and then a bit, uh... also facilitate workshops where we take people outside. in really simple ways. Um, that is, has definitely been a result of. It's like Karen Barad's intra thing. It's a result of my many years of practicing dancing and knowing about tools that can bring us into a bodily awareness of where we are and how we are in relation. And the workshop itself, or the content of the workshop over the years, has got kind of simpler and simpler. When we first started it, there was a lot of, like, quite, um, you know, kind of specific scores that would kind of be about moving a lot for everybody, less autonomy, less choice, and, um, in the wintertime, which we're in now, we don't run those workshops so much. because of the weather. But we do run this thing called Practice Group. 

PETER: Oh, yeah, yeah. 

Katye Coe: Uh, and it's Practice Group that meets, we meet online, um, once a month, and it's for anybody that's ever been to a kinship workshop of any kind, anywhere, 'cause it's a, it's a traveling workshop. It happens. 

PETER: In different places? 

Katye Coe: In different places. Some places we're invited to, some places we go back to, and since I moved here, and Tom moved to Bute, just off... uh, coast of Scotland... Yeah, yeah, it's about an hour train journey to Wembs Bay, and then a 45 minute journey. So the workshops happen, among other places, in both the places that we now live. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: And we did them in Kenilworth, as well, when I was leaving there, and anyway, over the winter, there's a commitment to a regular practice, which I probably do, not every day, but most days. Um, which is a sort of minimum of, um, yeah, 10, 10, 15 minutes of something, uh, we call a Sit Spot and it's a local place outside. Could be your garden, could be a park if you're in a city. For me, I go up to this, what I call a “bowl”. Tom calls it “secret bowl”, 'cause it's kind of a little bit off the path. And I practice there, and sometimes I just do a Sit Spot, sometimes I stay out there for a while and move in the, you know, Helen Poyner kind of way for a while. And then we come together online once a month, and, you know, just as a place to kind of come together from wherever we are, and there's people in, sometimes people abroad, sometimes there's one woman who's sometimes in Egypt, and there's a person, uh, in Wales, and there's several people in Wales, actually, and, you know, Scotland and all over the place. And we meet for a couple of hours... And then we go off, and we practice again. 

PETER: Okay, but when you meet online, you talk about it. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, we call it kind of coming round the fire. 

PETER: Okay. Yeah. Um, so... Yeah, like reconnecting somehow. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, and talking about what's occurring in this very simple practice and what we're noticing... 

PETER: And so, there's a lot of, like, practice, like, with Helen. She will lead this sort of thing. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. But when you're training with Helen... You also commit between the, you know, if you do the year long training, I think it's three or four. 

PETER: Sessions? 

Katye Coe: Yeah, like 4 or 5 days. And then in between, you commit to an hour of inside practice and an hour of outside practice every week. 

PETER: Wow. Okay. 

Katye Coe: And you also commit to, like, a subgroup that might be geographically chosen, 'cause people come from all over the country to do it. And you also meet up with them and practice together. So there's this, I think, probably, both Tom is training with her now, and I trained with her historically, but we're held in this idea of a regular practice of some kind. And I, yeah, so if I'm here, I practice up there, or I practice when I'm walking through the meadows to get to my office, where I see clients. down into town. So there's a walk through the meadows, that I sometimes just give myself extra time for, and I, instead of doing a Sit Spot, I'll do a Slow Walk, just an observational walk, because I... 

PETER: and so what are we gonna do? Like, just practically speaking? 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: If it’s okay, to ask. 

Katye Coe: Totally. 

PETER: So we find a place outside. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, we'll go to... 

PETER: Up on the hill. 

Katye Coe: We'll go to the bowl. The secret bowl. 

PETER: Behind the chapel. 

Katye Coe: Just because then you visit, where I practice. I love taking people there. Okay, great. And I'll set it up, it's very simple. that you find a place to get comfortable. That is probably not lying. They're always a resting practice as well, but there's something about, particularly after moving a bit inside, that we can take our bodies to, um... Uh, yeah, I can't remember the name of the... Um, American person who named it as a Sit Spot (Jon Young), but if I think if you refer to a lot of indigenous ways of being in the, you know, in relation to nature, they would often have, they wouldn't call it a Sit Spot, but they would often have a regular practice of observation. That brings them into some kind of right relationship or alignment with where and what they are. Living with. And so I will, it's very simple, but I might give a couple of pointers, which is to, because it's cold, that a Sit Spot doesn't necessarily have to be completely still. that you can, you know, you can really shift, probably in the same place, so that you're, um, like you stay in relationship primarily to your own body. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: And that can also be through kind of, you know, just keeping touch alive with rock or ground or self touch. Eyes are always open. We don't go in here and kind of do any of that. Like, but all your senses are open. Um, and, and you're just, um... uh, practicing sensing in. That's a bit of a, like, uh, sometimes I don't like that phrasing, but, um, you're just being, you're just seeing what arrives. What arrives into a scene which is more like a receiving scene than a kind of hunter seeing? 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: You're listening. You're feeling. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: Kinesthetically, and that's it. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: And I can keep, you know, I keep time. So that you don't have to, and then... 

PETER: But it's nice just to, because it sounds like something you can really, even though it's very simple, it's something you can really go into practice. So just to like, yeah, name a little bit like what we can try today to get a taste of it. But yeah, observing and providing the right condition so that you can observe sitting, feeling, sensing. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, and being alongside... 

PETER: And alongside again, yes. 

Katye Coe: Alongside you, but also, you know, one of the ways that we want to, like, the attempt with connectivity and outside is that we are part of, and with, and also a visitor too. the environment that we, whatever environment is that we're in, and Helen will always talk about in, not on. We're not on landscape or on, we are in and with. And of course, like the regularity of that practice means that if you go to the same place... 

PETER: It changes. 

Katye Coe: There's always something magic. There's always something unexpected. There's always something new, there's always something. Yeah, and, um, yeah, so we can do that. 

PETER: Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. We'll come back, and we'll tell you what happened, and we'll say goodbye and stuff. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah, well, we can, maybe we can finish where we started and we can reflect. 

PETER: Oh, that'd be great. 

Katye Coe: We can do a bit of reflecting, 'cause I'd love always love to hear what... Yes. what arrived for you. And we can do that at home with a cup of tea, so we kind of do the circle bit. 

PETER: Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Thank you so much. See you in a minute.

Part 3

PETER: Okay, so we're back a little bit after we were.

Katye Coe: Yeah, ate some food. Yes. Lit of fire. 

PETER: Yes. Back in the cozy cottage. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: There was something really amazing with the practice, about contemplation and silence. In fact, we walked almost the whole way back without saying a word, just... sort of a queue that to start walking. But nonverbal. And so such a special place. to be. And like, just experientially, I was with... You know, at first, I'm with the sort of bigger things, and I'm looking around, and there's rocks, and there's the heather, and there's you over there, and there's our bags, and then there's the clouds, and I think the hills on the other side of the valley made it look like it was a sea, almost, and then there's the clouds moving, and there's the wind. And which is really sounding through the heather. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: And a few trees as well. And... And then... And then I move, and I'm against this rock, and I'm finding different places between the heather and the rock, and I'm sliding and adjusting, and at some point, I'm going into the detail of each leaf and the water droplets and the seeds, and the different types of plant, the different types of green. And, um... And then, at some point, I find myself face, face down, towards the mud, and I really saw, like, all the different, the molding leaves, and the green around the roots, and in the mud and the dirt. And there's just so much. It's such a complex environment to be in. Yeah. And I think that's what I was trying to say is... I feel as though... one almost doesn't want to talk about it. If that means... 

Katye Coe: Mm. Yeah. Um... I realize that I usually go and do... um, a Sit Spot or a bit of outdoor practice. Not usually, but maybe half. Half the time I go. Before Open Practice or at the other, at the other end of the day. And um... Yeah, I was really wet. that there are, there's heather, and also, there are a lot of billberries there. So some of what I think you're probably seeing was and the new leaf is coming. Like, everything's full of new, spring life, and, um, Those were bilberries. Some of the bilberries that fed me in June last year, when I was only eating wild food, and... Um, it's a long season. The Billberry season. It's a long season and they're very... They're very, you have to be really patient to collect them. They're not agreeable. Um, And so I was really with the, um, robustness of those plants, and I was also slightly being moved by the wind. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: And realized that, yeah, that I wasn't moving because the plants were moving, but I was moving. I could easily move as they were moving because the wind is so strong today. I have not been up there in, I've been up there in the rain and really cold, but I haven't been up there. With the storm blowing above us. And having walked over, you know, coming from the relative kind of, um, uh, humanness of the chapel. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: And then into this place and then dropping down into a place where the human form just looks suddenly takes on a different kind of size in relationship to its surroundings. Um, and I feel it, even when I just do a Sit Spot like that, it's like I feel the insignificance. of my... body in relation to those huge rock faces and the myriad of, like, of plants and also underneath, yeah, the lichen and the, all the different greens, and I sat up next to, um, quite a large crack in the rock, which I, I'm pretty sure hasn't, has inhabitants. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: And I, that's where I checked when I went up there because I thought of all days, If there's a fox or a weasel or something, it's likely to be home right now because it's so, and and I can see outside the raised kind of step where I, I can, I often see kind of feathers or, like a few little bones. I haven't seen any scat there, but I'm pretty sure I'm at the entrance way of... probably a fox. I imagine. And um... 

PETER: And the rain was sort of special as well. You could see the wind because of the rain. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: being sort of this mist, this sort of moving in waves with the, with the, with the wind. And for me, the body feels... Yeah, like you say, it feels so small in this grandeur, and also so much apart, and I'm super aware how these plants will keep growing and shifting, and I wondered, because of all the seeds, I wondered if some of the plants that I was seeing up on the cliff were related to the ones below, and if they move away from each other or closer to each other through time, and how I move and get closer and nearer. And I think this I really noticed when I worked with Elise Brewer, an artist in Sweden. And we were working outdoors of how you find, on a slope with all these rocks and bushes and things, you can find positions that are so comfortable, which you just don't find in them, not because we don't have that sort of, there's no, those options of this landscape that molds a new mold too. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah. 

PETER: to the landscape. It's very special. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. Yeah, and I watched you kind of tip down at one point, sort of, um, tipped off the edge and I really know the generosity of the ground then. Like, in a lot of landscape actually, but, um, More land and heather and bilberries, like, offer this bed that you can kind of roll through. But rock is really, that rock is really... Well, I often think about it. I think we talked up there. It's like, I imagine the rock that built this cottage is probably quarried from there because it's so pre-industrial. There's no way of transporting anything very far. So, I think I'm probably not inaccurate in imagining that and the solidity of this little home. is really mirrored in the sort of… because even though the storm was happening and we were blustery up on the tops, you dropped down into those bowls and it's also shelter. Yeah. It's shelter for other beings, and it was shelter for us in that time, and, um, You're absolutely right about this quiet that it leaves me with. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: And if I, you know, if I don't have company and I come back, I can often. Yeah, be very happy not to speak for a really long time. 

PETER: Yeah, yeah. 

Katye Coe: And, and, and the weather is really loud today, but so the birds were not, I saw one seagull, I think. Yeah, we were trying to. 

PETER: Yeah, navigate the wind. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah. They have been thrown about. 

PETER: Yeah, I remember. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, exactly. But the nesting birds will arrive soon, not into the bowl, but up onto the more above, and curlews arrive to nest here every year, and so the that places gets filled with their calls, and... Yeah, really... I really, it's very simple. Yeah. It's very simple. But I was really... I often am aware of like how cliche this is, but it's like, oh, well, I'm part of a congregation when I'm there. I'm part of a whole ecosystem of other beings that, because we've been using this word alongside this, like Charlie said, for Open Practice, it's like, oh yeah, okay. But I, um... I sometimes, I sometimes get a sense. like, well, I can speak about it in two ways, and they're both true. I can speak about it. It's like, I'm going there because I want to offer myself and that place a little bit of time to be felt and seen and to be part of. And then, you know, and then at some point I looked up at the rock face that I was, uh, leaning against, and there was these drips kind of coming down, and they hit my face, and I was aware of your presence over the other side, and I was like, wow, this is, feels like prayer. 

PETER: Mm. Mm. 

Katye Coe: Um, Or. Worship. But I don't want to be reverent about it. It doesn't feel like I'm being sort of reverent, but it does feel like I'm part of something. that I know enough about, both in the practice and the place, to, um, know that if I give it that 15 minutes or an hour and 15 if I'm gonna move. Um, There's a reciprocity in that place that means I'm welcome there. And... and... yeah. 

PETER: Yeah, and I was, I had to think of, because of the quietening and the speechlessness of it, I had to think of your text, is She Dancing. 

Katye Coe: Oh, well done. 

PETER: Yeah. And... it's a fantastic text, and really, for me, really captures this... especially this difficult of talking about that. The thing that aren't utterable, that aren't vocalizable, and... I feel like that, like, this podcast is really... Um, it's uh, It's, It's an impossible task, which we're so used to as dancers, we've often given these assignments within an improvisation setting, or within class, or exploration, which invites us to do something that is not fully achievable. And that's this sort of assignment of, like, how, like, we are only using words to try and get closer to what it is we're doing, and I think I use, well, the podcast uses a lot of, like, instruction, basically, like, we did this and this, this. These things happen. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: You could recreate the instruction, but it doesn't tell you everything about the reality of it. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: And Especially these outdoor practices. We all know where the outdoors is, but to know the specificity of it, and the uniqueness, and the realness, the liveness, it's the same I have with babies to come back to that again, is... I, even though I've been working with them for 10 years, I still have an assumption of how they behave and what they're like, And then every time I meet them, they surprise me immensely with what they're interested in, and just how their tempo is, and how their physicality is. Like, the detail, which amounts to their whole, because they don't simplify themselves. They live in that complexity of detail, and... and always overwhelmed by the... the... my inner incap, incapability of actually naming exactly what it is. And still, I'm still struggling. And again, that just, it, again, realliterated that. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, it's very, what you say, really resonates. I know that Tom and I have struggled... for... the entire time that we've been working with this, um... nature connection, work, and even the word nature connection is already, is already got weird. Um, work of being in kinship with more than human. Uh, beings, we have really struggled in many different ways to describe something that is fundamentally embodied. And I get a sense that “She Dancing”, um, Which also really needs context. Yeah. Not for everybody. But I often imagine publishing it as a piece of writing. was both a blessing and also potentially meant that it got read, like writing, rather than read like dancing. Whereas the performing of it is, you know, that I dance for 40 minutes. Um, Among people who are not really paying attention to what I'm doing. Sometimes I dance in a different space where no one is there. If the band is if the band is playing, I'm just not visible in the dancing, but then I come out and I've been dancing for 40 minutes and then I speak it. Yeah. I speak it... I speak it... as a piece of music for me, but it is supposed to be read from the experience of dancing. That's how I made it happen. I have read it in settings before where I haven't danced before it, and it's really different. Um, so there's something about reflecting on being, on moving or sitting in, in an open sense way out, out there, that also requires the embodiment of it in order to reflect, which is probably why we didn't need to say anything. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: It's like, well, we're just with the experience of... something that, in many ways, is just very every day. It's just not our, It's not the everyday for the huge majority of people living in such a fast. indoor world. And we feel like, well, I trust that, that... a commitment to that practice and a commitment to finding ways to offer other people that practice. Um, you asked about activism yesterday and it's like this is... a way of... activating a more right relationship with. yourself and And I believe that dancing does that too. So there's... there's probably a pathway between the words in “She Dancing” and the words that we might use to describe... Kinship Workshop, and... I think it is activist, and I... I would say it's quiet activism, and it's everyday activism, and all those other things, and... It's just re, it's not making anything new happen. It's just going some time for ourselves to feel things we already know somewhere. Like deep and deeply. And anciently. 

PETER: Yes, yeah. 

Katye Coe: And I think, I think that's the same with dancing. I think these human bodies have always known dancing. Always. It's not far from... and knowing. 

PETER: No, and we spoke about the dance being simple. There's something so, yeah, it's so readily accessible. And of course, that's sort of the power of it as well. And I feel so blessed to have met your work in this way and to be able to come into your practice in this way, to be invited in. And maybe, yeah, maybe the podcast acts as some sort of conduit to really focus in and say, what do you do? What does it do? And you've really illustrated, at least to me, the living in this place, the being in relationship to this community, to this temporality, this timing, this practice of going to the chapel, and then having, or being situated in a sort of more rural area and being able to go into more wilderness like places. Um, Yeah, it's such a pleasure. And if I can, because it is really so inspirational. It really teaches me a lot about what I'm doing by doing this. And if I can imagine, it'll borrow from you and sort of imagine that this podcasts aren't really to be listened to, to be danced as well. Or to be considered more of as a dance. And that was always the in, there's always a tension there, a sense there. In fact, often people, I approach, they'll, some people I approach, they'll say, but I don't dance, and it's called Peter Dance With. And I'm like, oh, but it doesn't have to be dance that we do. But because, in fact, the encounter is about embodying embodiment and being in the now and trying to resonate with that practice, or that activity, or that day, that person, that place. Yeah. Such a gift. Thank you so much. 

Katye Coe: Oh, it's a real pleasure. I really... Yeah, I'm really grateful. Also, that you can articulate it in that way, and what I realize about today, and yesterday, is in my usual kind of spidery way. I didn't know. I didn't know if we were gonna... Like, I don't know, like, start sort of dancing some kind of score that I would propose inside the studio. I didn't know we were gonna go out. But there's something starts to become clear when you also spend time with someone. 

PETER: Yes. 

Katye Coe: It's like, oh, these are the 2 practices. These are the 2 dancing, moving, somatically, deeply informed practices that I do hear. Whenever I'm here. So it's that you were dancing with me, but you were also dancing with this place. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: All the people that I know and not all of them, but, you know, it's like much more spacious than 2 in a way. 

PETER: Yeah. Yeah, in that way, you've really held that role, I spoke about it before the chapel of the role of the dancer by holding the choreography that you sort of live within. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, or midwifing. 

PETER: Exactly. 

Katye Coe: Oh, this happens, this is gonna happen. Exactly. That place is gonna be there. Whether I'm whether we go there or not. 

PETER: Yes. 

Katye Coe: And that Open Practice is gonna go be there. whether we go there or not, but they just... Yeah, they're just the things that I do. And it's really funny, because at the very beginning, we were talking about being a dance worker. 

PETER: Mm, mm. 

Katye Coe: You know, it's often how I get paid is for dancing, teaching, dancing. But also, today, doing these two things is like, is about dancing. 

PETER: Yeah. 

Katye Coe: And being. 

PETER: Yes. 

Katye Coe: Of course, there's labor, if you want to talk about it in that way, but it's like, this is not paid. Work. This is just daily life. 

PETER: Yeah. That's such a, that's the, yeah, the best way to sort of wrap up in a way, the whole, the whole thing. 

Katye Coe: Yeah. 

PETER: I will link to everything we've mentioned. Hopefully, I'll try and catch it all. And I will also share your website and so if people want to get in touch with you and learn about your work. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or at least my email because my website's really embarrassingly outdated. 

PETER: Oh, I feel your website's very resourceful, though. Okay, cool. It's very nice, actually, to read and to read a website from a dancer's perspective as well. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

PETER: Because you articulate the practices with others in a really beautiful way. Yeah. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, and we can add the kinship workshop website, which has, it has a Sit Spot score in it. 

PETER: Oh, great. 

Katye Coe: So if people want to do a Sit Spot after the hearing about hours, they can just go there and follow the score. Follow the score. 

PETER: Oh, that's brilliant. 

Katye Coe: And if people want to do an Open Practice? 

PETER: Yes. 

Katye Coe: They can get it. 

PETER: Exactly. 

Katye Coe: get in touch with Charlie, we'll borrow a playlist and... 

PETER: And maybe you will be at the Open Practice and they'll get to meet you as well. 

Katye Coe: Yeah, but people could also... Think on the idea of it if they're farther away and... Get in, 

PETER: Yes. try to borrow the... 

Katye Coe: borrow the... playlist. Dance from 9 till 10. 

PETER: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. 

Katye Coe: Thank you, 

PETER: thank you, Katye. 

Katye Coe: Yeah.