PETER, dance with...

PETER, dance with Neil Paris

• PETER • Season 3 • Episode 39

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Today we danced with Neil Paris. To contact Neil Paris email smith_paris@hotmail.com

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PETER:

Hello, today I'm here with what do I say? Neil Paris or Neil Smith? 


Neil Paris:

I think you've just said You've just said it both. I'm kind of both really, but I suppose, yeah, you know. 


PETER:

Neil Paris is professional name. 


Neil Paris:

Paris is the professional name yeah. 


PETER:

When we know each other from the origin, like of my career, I was still at school when we met. I was still at Rambert. Wow. Learning to be a dancer and finding my feet in the world, and aspiring to be doing what you were doing, right then with fabulous Beast. And you became the. I don't want to say father figure, but you were the person who took care of me throughout that period of my life, entering into a company, and performing on the biggest stage I've ever performed on in the West End with a full size orchestra, The right of spring, a massive, a massive production. And you had been there from the audition to the sort of summer schools that Michael Keegan Dolan had me come to and attend as we got to know each other. And then for the R&D, the research with the Mexican shaman, Ajandro, and then into the rehearsals and so on and we often shared a room, we shared a dressing room, we were there through it all. So 16 years later, I'm in Cambridge, you're in Cromer. It made sense to reach out to you. 


Neil Paris:

It's lovely. 


PETER:

And I mean, and also after Fabulous Beast, we did have some contact.. I got to work with you as you started to develop your own work. 


Neil Paris:

Yes, yeah. You were right there at the beginning. Really, right at the very, very in section of that kind of first time it came out of my head and into a space and you and Julia came along and acted for me. which was. Which was wonderful. And also I was thinking it was a lovely kind of exchange the deal was you and Julia could also then have the space and it was, yeah, so it was it was instrumental 


PETER:

yeah, because I mean I was finding my feet still after trying working as a dancer and then trying to figure out, okay, how do I relate to what is in me and what that means and what it means to be in in or with dance. But anyway, this is about you. So if people don't know you, how do you how do you introduce yourself? We were talking a bit about this earlier, but maybe today, what would you how would you describe yourself for? what are some of the key points that you'd like people to know of you? 


Neil Paris:

Gosh, it's always so difficult. What's my title? I suppose. What do you say, dance and movement artist? Or is it a movement and dance artist? I don't know which one comes first. Most of my work now is with people who haven't had formal training or it's a long time since they've done formal training. So a lot of the people I'm working with now are certainly over 50, possibly over into the 60s, 70s. and a few younger now It’s little bit more intergenerational. And I'm really, I guess, concerned with giving them an opportunity to move, to really explore that side of themselves, that maybe as never really fully been explored, or has been in some cases is laying dormant for a little while, I give them the opportunity to express themselves through moving physically and as part of that, finding ways in which I can help them with more freedom, with ease of movement, with safety, with, and then building on solid solid skills. So that hopefully the skills enable the freedom, which enables the skills, which and to see themselves as dancers.. 


PETER:

And it's still rooted in where you came from as a dancer and as a maker. 


Neil Paris:

Yeah, I think so. I think because before Fabulous Beast, before I'd gone to Laban, I'd gone to Dartington college of arts, which was very much about, which was a theater ranking course. But it was theatre making in a social kind of in a always had that kind of social context, so it wasn't really about being able to enter the industry and to get an agent. It was about how how do you have a stay with things, with people and create something? And I think that's grounded me into into what I've done since really, I think about it. It's. And the work with the intensity of the work with Fabulous Beast and being surrounded by such extraordinary performers and people. has, yeah, has kind of embedded itself. I think I'm really quite committed still to ensemble and group that specialness of what it's like to be part of that group, that find that language of movement or they share that and you share the rhythm and you that's still, I think it's still quite an important part of what I do, yeah, and it's all. It's all still in there. you know. 


PETER:

And so now what I ask is usually, what are you busy with? What are we going to do today? And we've already done what we're going to do mainly, but maybe you could still introduce for the listeners before we open it up into how it felt and everything and our reflection. Just what it is that we did today. Okay. I have my opinions, of course, but I'd love that you. 


Neil Paris:

Well, practically it's an online class and it's called No Big Idea, NBI, it's become known as. And it started off 10 years as a in real life, in person class, which I kind of set up for myself as much as anything, so I would move regularly, and invited a few people I knew to say that you't come and take part. And these were all, you know, essentially kind of non-dances. So we would meet every week. Sometimes we'd make pieces. and then in COVID, obviously it all stopped, but then we just tried putting it online. which meant that people from France could join in and people from London could join in and people from Corby. And it never went back. It' never really gone back from being online because the group didn't want to lose those new people. Yeah. So yeah, so today is an hour and a half of, you know, a fairly structured session or structured warm-up, but then it moves into an improvisation breakouts, a bit of a chat. improvisation 2. 


PETER:

do you want to maybe just mention what was the focus for today? Because it's quite specific, and maybe you could even mention some of the exercises we did. 


Neil Paris:

So. kind of that the Yeah, there is this, if you think of what you mean, like thinking from, actually talk through the way it works. 


PETER:

Yeah. 


Neil Paris:

Okay, well, the way it works is that it normally have what we call a dance track. So it's just a fun track for people to just begin to move. It's also that and it's also to like, it's that threshold moment of like, okay, you're leaving your I know you're in your your bedroom, your lounge or wherever you are but this is the moment that you transition into your dance space. 


PETER:

Yeah. 


Neil Paris:

So we have that and then there's a very comes from the Fabulous Beast days of kind of yoga-based warm-up. Which is really useful online because it means I can absolutely make sure that they I know that I've prepped them. Yeah, because when you're not in the room with them, you can't you can't. And then that moved into four layers today, which was something I kind of, I'm not sure I think I made it up, but it's just basically the idea of that very subtle impulses within the body. trying to get ourselves to listen in very carefully to what's already happened to what's already happening.. Saw a lovely video recently. Someone sent us to Steve Paxton just before he died doing what he called Tiny Dance.. And it was just him stood still in nature. But obviously, so it's that thing of just acknowledging that you've got all of those things that are happening. and that develops into then connecting into the physical body, which is your muscles and your bones. Articulations, and then we look at moving into space and then we connect with each other. So it's just those.... 


PETER:

Four layers, 


Neil Paris:

yeah, and it's called four layers.. So we kind of starts here and it moves out, out, out, out, out, out, out. But then as you were saying, how do you then main, but then it's about what Kate, when we're moving. Oh we want to stay connected to all of those bits. And part of it is hopefully, you never need to make a move up. If you're there's something. try to get people away from thinking about what their movement should look like, because I always found for me, if we were discussing, I said, I could cut my head off and not be intellectualizing. I what I think the move should look like, or what's. How can I be more moving from the body? 


PETER:

Yeah. 


Neil Paris:

And then act more consciously, because unconscious movement. that's limited. So how do you find little structures that you can then bring your consciousness to? So you can know that, oh, my arm's my arm isn't fully extended. Or I'm doing the same things all the time. So we use that and then we moved into a couple of tracks that we've been using where it's now developed where I was like saying to them okay here's your first improvisation. It's a solo improvisation, so it's just you on your own. for them to explore however they want, maybe. And I introduced the idea of imaginary partner today. 


PETER:

Yes. 


Neil Paris:

So sometimes I'll add an idea into the first improv. Maybe there'll be images with it. It depends on perhaps what has happened more recently. But today's was, yeah, just imagine there is someone in the room with you and... how that can affect your. So you're not alone, even though you are alone.. And then we go into a breakout. And essentially, I'm kind of looking from the moment we start to dancing to the moment we go to the breakout, there isn't really a break. I'm interested in that kind of how do you not. Because the place that you get to after the rotations and the place that you get to after four layers, you're kind of already how do we just continue that all the way through? So for them, it can be like 45 minutes of fairly concentrated movement. And the breakouts are really in their break. And the idea was they used to be like, now think about what you've just done. Make some notes. But now people just have a chat. And it's just that they have the drink and some water in. And then we come back and then today those people that you were in the breakout room with, you have a duet with them. 


PETER:

Yeah, yeah, that was nice. 


Neil Paris:

Same tracks, but there may be something like for you and Helen you got into that discussion of sea, of coastal inland and that then informed informed your duet. 


PETER:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then we we had a dance at the end. 


Neil Paris:

Yeah, and then another little breakout just to give people an opportunity to, because I think it was something you were saying earlier about how the difference was when someone is dancing on their own and when someone is actually working in a pair, that dialogue gets going and I think I've really found that. It's not just a break, actually, it's let them have that dialogue and also say, God, thank you, that and to say thank you, I really enjoyed dancing with you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. thank you for that that was and for them also to realise that sometimes I think I've heard them think they haven't got much to offer and oh, it's so great watching you, Neil. It's all right. I find like if I partner them.. I love working with them, because I'm like,Oh, my God, Sue, what is that that you do? Yeah. What is that? And I can't. It's not in my book, What is that? I love the way you do that. Yeah. And it's genuine. Yeah. And so hopefully people get to really appreciate that. Actually, they are really good. 


PETER:

And quite simple. Just arms in the air, but there's something that we've what she's doing, 


Neil Paris:

yeah. And I think they're and it's that thing about, I think I've always talked about it. If you're connected to your movement, if you're connected to your image, if you're connected to whatever you' you're connected somewhere to it, and it shows. Yeah, that you know that there's something going on. So we had the breakout and then we have often have a couple of tracks just to kind of dance out, which is the opposite of that 


PETER:

at the beginning. 


Neil Paris:

You can leave all of this stuff we've just done now and get on for a day and a warm down to finish. 


PETER:

No, it's great. 


Neil Paris:

That's how it's pretty much how we do a session. 


PETER:

But that's great. And so now, we'll we'll pause and there'll be a break before we start reflecting. And it just gives people at home the opportunity to imagine a little bit what we did, perhaps even try something, maybe they have the opportunity to stand and to be with some of the words and the things that you've put into this room Yeah, so we'll come back in a minute and see you there.

PAUSE



PETER:

OK, great we're back and this is now I mean the problem is Neil we are reflecting all the time anyways. 


Neil Paris:

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Always reflecting. 


PETER:

But this was wonderful, to dance with you, to be in your practice and let you say, to remember those times and it was an intense year two years of dancing together and dealing with very big things, which I'm still dealing with. And so yeah, to have the opportunity to be back in the studio was really a special.. 


Neil Paris:

And. Likewise. 


PETER:

I think. I mean, maybe you can say a little bit because, I mean, it's your practice and you already described it in great detail. But maybe because it was me and you dancing, some of those things came up for me, so the sort of digging and peat. I want to say folk. So like what we did with Fabulous Beast, there was this sort of rural Irish of course. homage and paying attention to and privileging since it had been such a repressed and colonialized culture, for want to a bad word. And at the time, it wasn’t a really fully conscious of that. But being here now and having that time to rethink, having seen kneecap, you know, this summer and reengaging with some of those stories and remembering some of the things we were doing, which was about trying to get back to something more authentic, something that's more ourselves. So I'm just curious a little bit of that experience because for me, images of farming, of toiling the field, and I have to think of my my mum's father's side was all farmers. Oh, really? sheep farming, crop farming. And there would have been laborers, of course. Yeah, yeah. At least what I know of my great grandfather. And so those traditions are in the family, I was just reading about how he moved away from that, and into engineering. And then you see how then my mum moved into nursing and became a professional and then how then I became an artist and a dancer, But there's that lineage in that history and those types of that class struggle in a lot of ways. and being back in the UK, in the Fenlands, in Cambridgeshire for me but, coming over to the coast to Cromer, to see you. I am sort of thinking about of this place, of these people, these people that were overlooked and lost to time, to power struggles and so on. But what is that is there a folk nature to the work for you still or  it is about the people as well. 


Neil Paris:

I think so in as much as I suppose in as much as it is about the people that I'm working with. I don't wouldn't say there's anything particularly linked to the folk scene or the folk dance structure that we have in this country as such, but I think in as much as it's from it's from the people, that I'm working with. I would say, yes, it is connected into their.. Because I suppose if I'm... Yeah, what is folk dance? I mean, dance, folk dance is dance with folk. It's dance with people. Exactly, right. And you think, well, all dance is, folk dance, really, because it's dance with people.. But I suppose it's, you know, it's got a kind of a genre that you imagine and not even Morris, but just even the particular rhythms that are used in the music with it and there's that as we experience as a kind of intimate ground, there's a kind of yeah, into the earth. 


PETER:

Yeah, yeah. 


Neil Paris:

Whereas I suppose, you know, contemporary ballet is up or ballet's about leaving you. folk feels like it's about getting into the earth, which is I think fed into where Michael was working and and his you know, especially thinking perhaps with his ballet training, I think it's all about this. And he wanted to get down. Yeah. And the amount of time we are. 


PETER:

From the up to the down. 


Neil Paris:

We were either talking about rooting and getting down. But I just think it's interesting to what you say because I grew up basically in a rural environment. out here in Norfolk, you know, 8, 10 miles outside the city. But actually, all my, I've got, I don't know any lineage that's linked to the land. All of my family are kind of urban in terms of they were working in factories, yeah. Shoe operatives. 


PETER:

And your name, of course, Smith. 


Neil Paris:

Smith is someone who makes. Yeah. And, you know, my dad was in factory and his father was a plasterer and all of his family. So they were very much an. although I know I've come to realise, I grew up rural, my background context is urban. 


PETER:

I mean, when we've been talking, we talk a long walk, along the beach in Cromer, and it's so weathered and a sense of nature and also Helen brought up the waves of the sea. But we were talking about, what do you call what we do? And you were saying how that struggle of calling it dance or what style of dance are we doing? And exactly me bringing in that sort of easy into a conversation, of course, by bringing in the word folk, but of course, exactly as you say, that's a genre, almost or a style. 


Neil Paris:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 


PETER:

And yet, there's something, maybe about the tradition of dance from the folk. Tradition, maybe. There seems to be really important. The fact that you're gathering these people and it's not a big idea. It's not. It is just to dance. 

Neil Paris:

But don't now we're talking about it, I think this is perhaps one of the shifts with. If we're thinking about I'm gathering the people with no big idea, but I think from what I understand of the origins of some folk dance is there was a big idea to it because it was about this ritual element to it, ceremony and they were connected to seasons and acts. So there was a function, I think, a lot from my understanding of it is connected to the function of those dances in those days when. And I think in some cultures it still exist, but not so much now it's become more of a decorative art form, but it had its root in, this is the dance that marks the end of the harvest. This is the dance that's going to bring a dance for this, which used to exist so much more in our society and those kind of things of have gone and it has become a it's not functionless, but the function, it's not got a sign of a social function as such. And I think finding any kind of dance that still has that. social function. And that's why I said what I would do is it hasn't it hasn't got a social function outside of the people that take part in it. 


PETER:

Yeah. No, I get that. That's. And it's nice that you bring it up. And of course, I can pay homage to these ideas of toiling the soil and stuff. And of course, there was also those dances that would have been work dances, labouring dances, or labouring songs and rhythms and that sort of get borne out of the work of the machinic work or sort of the hammering or the marching or all these sort of associations with labor. But you're right. Yeah, that element of for a purpose, for reason. And of course, when we did the rite, family and heritage was sort of the core central feature of the research we were doing. Looking back at our ancestors, looking back at our families. And of course, I'm already, it already comes up and I have to think of, you know, how we have like a family a family tree of dancers as well, people who have influenced us and I think what was really rich in that work was exactly how we being influenced and affected by who we are and where we've come from and and like so many ways, it truly affected the dance, for me at least. I mean, especially I had that solo, which came directly from the the family constellation work we did.. So it was so relatable to this idea of who we are and where we're from. So I apologize for bringing that in placing it on the work. But that we were doing today, of course. But it's. It's still. There's still echoes. I mean, you have the yoga practice in there and there. So it's hard to get away from it really. 


Neil Paris:

Yeah. And I think. I mean, partly of using that yoga practice it is so effective. Yeah. It's just a I mean, I can't. And yeah,. For all of you of the things that happened in that time and the things that took away, I think learning how that practice is really effective. And the people people that I do with, if I leave it out, they always want it back. And But yeah, I mean, you can't not be influenced by that experience. Even some of the, you know, like most experiences, you learn things you don't want to do. And I think we probably all learn that that's not the way I want to do it. And I think that idea of, like when I left Fabulous Beast and I made Agnes and Walter, which you were part of that, really early, early thing. I was very much not wanting to repeat that create that environment that we eventually kind of found ourselves in which didn't feel healthy, was intense, but I was interested in trying to. But also with Agnes and Walter, I was working with someone who was 69, someone who was 79. from the community. I thought, well, I can't subject and there was something in me that's like it doesn't have to it doesn't does it have to be this way Could you make a really lovely piece of work without what it felt like the pain? I think there was a certain amount of sense of, you have to suffer in order to make something. Yeah. Yeah. And I think there are elements of truth in that. Yeah. But whether it was. I was questioning that when I left. Yeah. And I think, amul, it seemed to me that you were mentioned, the history of the Ireland as colonised. They did suffer a lot. There was a lot of suffering in Ireland, and it was a lot of it was, as I was at the hands of England and you know, it colonized it, it punished it. And that felt like it was a bit kind of endemic in what we were doing, you know So I was interested in, could I not working in that way? And I think that working in opposition to what I've been through is still an influence that that carried me forward. 


PETER:

And I mean, and it was such a powerful experience. I mean, and there's so many things that clearly still are precious and lingering. But it was massive. It was such a big project and it was the pinnacle of all that work that fabulous beast had done until that period to sort of surmise almost and try to make this piece and it was a great hit. It really really made a mark, I think. So it's sort of it'ss a strange relationship where we sort of find ourselves within the industry as well, like, and how it pushes certain agendas and certain needs. And one thing that I think is really remarkable, because you spoke a bit about how when we come in, we play the sort of get in track, just the song to start dancing. Yeah. And I don't maybe you didn't say that, but I had this sense of like. I'm a professional We know how to do this, so I should already be ready. But I felt the difference between what I was doing before then we did the the yoga mobilization and then the layers. By the time I'd gone through that, the world that I was available to was just vastly different. And it's just astonishing how little is needed to dance and exactly as you were saying, you started doing these little classes and this practice in a way, for yourself to be able to dance. It's really. It's so little that it's needed, but it's so much that comes from it. It's really powerful stuff. you know, 


Neil Paris:

I'm now just thinking again, back to everything that you know, the training that we went through to create the right and the training that I'd been on with that company for the four or five years before that, you know, and the first thing in the morning was on your mat.. In silence, cross leg going forward. Now we start. So there was an intensity right from the beginning of the day, which. So what's the other way is, well, we just bring it in, you know, the lightness that can so maybe maybe that is also a little bit of that element of play and lightness is really valuable as well. So let's just start with a bit of that and then. Yeah. Because I'm really interested in that as well. When you, it's like saying I was like my cousin's 50th birthday and we're all just up dancing, and I love those social party dance environments when everyone just kind of gets up and oh. and you look at it and everyone loves it. But virtually everyone gets up But you ask them to, do you want to come and do some stuff? They'll Yeah. And I was talking to my uncle about this and he said, "Oh, he said, I remember, I remember it was a good party for grandma his mum, my grandmother. And he said, " oh, it was down there all of a sudden he said, " you got up. And you were doing some kind of surfboard type of thing. surfing thing. I said, what, I? And he said, he said, I remember going, "Is that Neil? He said, "Because normally, I was I wasn't I didn't get involved in anything like that. Yeah, yeah. But he said, " that was the. And I was like, "W, you remember that?" So there must have been a moment, but all of a sudden I thought, i must has said, I want to I want to do that. And I guess that was how it I'd never heard that story before and I must have been quite young because he said he was still in the forces at the time. Okay. But I think that thing is something important of as professional dancers, it's not always target focus, but you know you've got to get there's a show that we're making and in our case, there's going to be steps and there's gotta be learned and you've got to learn it but embody perform it. So there's that whole thing that's got to be. So the kind of thing that can come out of people having joy... And that is a creative tool. how do you do you create from a joyful place? Yeah, yeah. Which. And it brings a different energy into the room. 


PETER:

Absolutely. And. No, no, 


Neil Paris:

I'm I'm still trying to that question of how do I create something for you? Just from pure joy? 


PETER:

V. Maybe also to think, I think what we are tip toeing around as well is very interesting or like, what dance is, especially since we're coming from, I mean, fabulous Beast is a dance theatre company. it was. And or or you could say physical theatre or whatever you want to however you want to label it. But. dance does hold something different. Thinking about, I see you were saying, those folk ritualistic practices, where theatre tends to be about narrative as a way of reflecting, quite ordered and structured. And those things definitely exist in ritual and dance practices, but there's also something beyond comprehension that sort of made available in those dance moments, in those moments where it's too untangible to really nail, beat to beat, what is trying to be portrayed. Narrative wise. And that blend almost, that fight, that struggle to demonstrate, where those moments for pure joy, emotion beyond conclusion of a sort of story or something can sort of emerge. And I had to think about, yes, there's, there isn't that desperate struggle. And to think about what would are the dances have been, actually, would people have been able to have danced when they were fighting the British, fighting the English. Are people still able to dance in Gaza, for instance, right? In such strife, unimaginable strife. There's something that seems so detached from what we're doing. And yet, Helen, in the discussion, which I thought was really interesting, because you were saying, oh, they break out and they just get a break and chat, right? It's nothing. But it wasn't. She said to me, she says, "O, today, I have to go for a dentist appointment." which is a form of strife. She said, "Oh, I've got figure this out, I've got to get to the dentist." But then she mentioned how her cat came in the room and started doing the movements. And so, even though she was talking about her date, she was actually also talking about reflecting on the dance as well. And then we spoke, I spoke a little bit about the earth and things like. Images that had come up for me and she started to dig into this trauma was maybe too strong, but like, upset that she had around the erosion of the coast of a certain part of this coast because of a power plant or something like this. And her devastation to be losing that habitat and what that means. And it was not political. Does that makes sense? It's emotional. She wasn't she wasn't really creating a sort of rational reading of this is what we need to do. We need to lobby this and this. It was really, I was with those waves and how they move and how the land is just being destroyed and changing. And I had to think, yeah, we start with joy, but also it allows for so much. That's dance space. 


Neil Paris:

Yes.. Yeah. And I think hopefully making sure that there is some enjoying or starting from a light place, does it set a time where if stuff does it emerge, which interests me work in physically working with dance and also I've experienced work working with voice. You can't always predict when something is gonna touch. So maybe that's that's also also part of it. I'm also conscious that the people that I'm working with, they're not professionals, they're not.. I haven't bought their time. Because from the industry side, the things, you know, we were paid, we were bought. We were supposed to be there at this particular time, and you were supposed to do your eight or nine hours of whatever we were doing, and you applied yourself as a. So there is a slightly different relationship there between someone who's coming voluntarily, and they're not signed a contract. 


PETER:

No, no, no. 


Neil Paris:

But if it's interesting, yeah, the way suddenly, yeah, there was this thing for her, how.. She was. Yeah, she's really angry about her. 


PETER:

Yeah. You know? I mean, it's quite the thought experiment, which we probably can't get into to imagine if we had done everything for the right of spring that we did, but without contracts, what would have emerged? Actually, Without the. I mean, maybe there still would be a massive performance in the things. But to imagine that there wasn't that tension of professionalism and contracts and owing and hierarchies and things and that, because some of those things we did were just spectacular. I mean, from the meditations to the yoga, to the sweat lodges, to the rehearsals. And exactly as you were saying just before we started, you know, so much talent, all in one room. It's it's it's a phenomenal thing to sort of have paid witness to. One thing that I was thinking about, you were talking about the breakout rooms and I was thinking about, especially the last one, where we'd danced for our partner and got to watch them, and you were sort of touching on this, this quality that I think is so interesting we've dance, where it almost the experience gets heightened through conversation when when it meets a person and starts to find some articulation in the world, even though we know it's never fully the words never fully capture the whole dance. Just like now, we're trying to capture something that will never fully be able to do. We know that we would always have to go and dance again, but yet trying and giving word which sort of appreciate her, give time and strengthen and hold and believe it. It's a very interesting relationship. But I've really felt like that, or I can imagine as well that that sharing after provides that space as well. 


Neil Paris:

Yeah, it's. I, yeah, I really agree with you on that. And I think it's something that I've I've come to value a lot more over time. And I suppose also as the groups that I've been working with, because I've been lucky enough to work with two groups consistently over six, seven, eight, nine, 10 years. So I've seen them all develop. It is about, okay, so now how do you develop that verbal language to kind of articulate what you've seen and how that can really support and feed the other person and grow the dance the next time. Whereas I don't think I would I would have probably just kept people moving. No, deliberately, I remember the earlier days I'd be like, yeah, I don't worry about it. But then it's like, okay, now, how do you describe as part of the sorts of part of their development as movers is that the more you can observe to see But it's really valuable, because then. people feel when you say to someone else, I just love I loved the way you did that." And they say, if I'm in the room with them, they say to me, "I just love that, you know, thanks." You realise you still want that approval for all that approval, praise, affirmation, as a mover, and I think for some. Some perhaps someone like Helen, who you worked with, he's probably in the latest to the group. Okay. She's not been with us, well over a year now. And her movement ranges is expanded, but it's restricted, it's limited to some degree. So for her to then get back A to get that for us, but also for you to look at it and go, actually, the way you did that. It reminds me that it's not all about. 


PETER:

No, because her movement was just so beautiful. She had these I mean, and it was interesting because I was emphasizing on how the viscosity that sort of slowness of her waves gave me such more of a powerful understanding. 


Neil Paris:

Yes, yes, yes, yes. 


PETER:

Of the movement of the tides and of the waves, then my sort of explosive whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh interpretation of waves. And it just enriches that conversation that we're having with this material, with this. And I mean, what's really central in everything you're doing? I mean, and also you're working Corby and stuff, which we haven't really even opened that you've been doing for so long. Is this sense of community and building a community and being together? And yeah, I know this is very much that, but it feels so important in your work. And even though, especially in the Corby work, if I understand it right, there is a performative element. The coming together and finding a commonality to sort of to do something together seems to be really rich and important for your work. 


Neil Paris:

And I think it's important for the people who come to do it. The social is for these people, the social, is as almost as important sometimes than. No, it's not as important. It's an important part of their whole coming on a Wednesday evening. Yeah. They know each other in a different way because they're dancing with each other, they've moved with each other and they're part of a group. You get that kind of they're part of a like we call, we kind of call them a company now, but they're a part of that group and I think it's really important to them to be part of it. And so being part of that community, and now with with the Corby group, like we traveled down to Brighton earlier this year to work with Yale Flexes intergenerational group. And so they're now hopefully beginning and Yale came up and did some work with them and they've worked with another artist. So introducing them to other dance artists and trying to get. They've been hoping to see themselves as part of a wider dance community, you know, you see that you're part of this is part of a whole national thing. They know about the fact that there's other groups, but how do you then get get them, give them the opportunity to see themselves as part of a much bigger community of people that are you're not the only people who like to move in this way. Because Corby like a lot of towns surrounded by, you gig a chance class, you've got a step class, you've got a ballet classes. You know, you've got, you haven't got anything, like. Look, we do. Yeah. You know, and like what you're offering, there's not really anything else like that. But there are more people doing it who are of a like mind. Yes, yeah. who understand or a like body, even. Yeah.. You physically. When we took them to Brighton, they went to Southeast Dance. She dances in a fairly new purpose built dance centre. So you go in and whereas we working over the chore, which is fabulous, because it's big and we've got cold space, and it's wonderful. You know, they're going in there, and there's a class already going on. we're in there in 10 minutes and 


PETER:

Yeah. Wow. 


Neil Paris:

Here are your lockers. That experience of being.. So they went there, so very different, and then they met this other group, similar ages, but they and Bright, so. Some of them clearly already had a previous practice. Yeah. But they had. sounds really tough. But you know, they looked like they came from Brighton. They had a a whole cosmopolit and the kind of. But they came out and they went, "We did all right in there, didn't we?" I thought we held our own..Cause you bloody dead. And they did, and now they're like,Do you know what? We're all right, aren't You know, they've had that opportunity to look look at themselves against other people who've been dancing as long, if not longer. Well, I think we're quite good up. Yeah. And that seems quite important for them now to see themselves. There's part of a wider community that they can. conside they've only got me to keep saying, you're doing really well. I really love what you doing. And of course, I do, but it's just me. This class is in, I mean I don't really have a style, but... Or I didn't think I did. but I think I possibly have, and I think I'm encouraging people with the. I think I'm beginning with the exercises that I'm doing. I think basically, I'm trying to encourage you to experience what I'm experiencing. But you've only got one person to keep. At some point, you want to go, like, test yourself mainly. They're doing that, you know, they And they're wanting to perform and they're wanting to share what they do. Yes. Not so much this group, but because I ask them, do you want to do performances? I'm like, yeah. Okay. They want to share what they're doing. They're proud of it and they value it. And even if they get small audiences, they still want and I think they also want to now they want that. They understand that there's that different journey from your creation to the kind of choreographing or the collating to the editing. to the the rigor of their okay well. Yeah. We need to get this ready for performance. and I think they've they're appreciating that journey now. 


PETER:

And it's I mean, and it's it's admirable, isn't it? Because we know how difficult it is actually to move towards a public facing thing. Like, we struggled, as I said, like with, how do we call? what we're doing? What is this? And exactly as you say, like, it's my style, it's what I enjoy. But yet we know dance history, we know all the words, and yet still, there's a difficulty and it's similar. It's very similar to then putting that on a stage and sharing with society at large, a larger community, and hoping that they might join our community or share in some part of that what we're going through, and so on, I have to think about how when there's a crisis or when there is yeah, when there's a crisis in oneself or in the world, we go to a place to get help. You know, we go to the doctors, we go to therapy, we go to There are places that are for crisis and our world isn't about crisis, it's separate. However, listening to the people talking during the class today, in the dancing today, it starts to make me think about how having a community that can also absorb crisis is also really important and how that that we can we can somehow be together through crisis as well. It doesn't happen to be something that you disappear and come back to, and the fact that you're working with people, you were talking about people needing hip replacements and stuff. and that you can be in that journey with them losing potentially range of movement or flexibility or possibility of certain access to types of activities and that as a group, and with the scores and the dances that you're doing, it includes those changes and the shifts in a community. So when we get depressed, when we aren't in mourning, when we have a loss, when the world hasn't allowed for something that we're there for each other. And so that's why also I'm thinking the fact that your group wants to take that to a stage is really, it's really brave because there's something very precious about having a familiar space a place where you can trust that you can be together regardless of what you're going through, or whilst you're going through things, and that it's not like work where if something tragic happens, you lose a loved one or something, you know, that's common thing of, oh, go away and then come back when you're better or when it when it's and it's as if as if it doesn't matter, as if it's somehow can't be a part of that community. And as if it can be solved as well. Like the loss of a loved one could be just sort of resolved neatly in the therapist' office and then you're back to normal in six weeks or back to your... 


Neil Paris:

Your productivity levels are not back. But you're right, working in this way is ultimately hyper should be really flexible. It's like you can work with work with what anybody brings. That's really the all they can work with whatever they bring. And if someone is there they should always be a way of you know, adapting what we do, what they do. Yeah, because certainly some people do come and say, you know, this is really give me a problem. You know, physical thing, you said, well, okay, just don't just. Just don't do it. But I had someone a few weeks ago and they have got some, and I think they've got some fairly serious history of depression and. They are fairly new to the group as well. And they kind of had come and mentioned to be. I said, I think I'm like, I'm on on the bit of a slide again. Yeah. Is like, OK, well.. That's fine. Yeah. But it was interested in Peter, 'cause, you know. I think not even so long ago I'd have been, okay, we'll just do exactly what you want. You know, you want to sit down? Yeah. But I was actually more like Bullet. I encouraged you to do to take part, do take part. And I think before I'd been much more on cautious about that. But I said, just however you want, but. And she' got through and she had a she said, I'm so glad I did it. Yeah. I didn't stop the directory, but I think... That being part of that community, knowing you can still come to it, you can still take part in it, and you can be accepted and... Wherever you are when you or you can step away from it. That's the other thing. It's a bit like, well, if you want to step away, that's fine. That's okay. There's no. I'm not, we're not going to go. Yeah. Yeah. You don't realise what you've. You know, we're working to a performance. You trying and. I think you almost have to have that approach doing this kind of work because people have lives and they're very unpredictable. And crisis comes at different times. and perhaps perhaps working with an older community, we're noticing, like some people have got friends are real and that's happening more regularly and you think of that's I think that kind of openness also somehow breeds a.. I think it's a kind of a reciprocal thing, whereas suddenly they almost are they are really committed to the group because they know they've got the community that the community will say, yeah you can. It's okay, you can't come. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Come back when you're ready. Yeah. That's fine. We'll still be here. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, we can absorb your crisis without making any reference to it. We're not suddenly going to turn this into some kind of therapeutic session. 


PETER:

Yeah. 


Neil Paris:

It will be therapeutic, but we're not gonna gonna turn it into something. I'm not gonna turn it into something. It's not mine. It's not my skill set. 


PETER:

No exactly, I was at Rambert teaching at the school I trained at, and so many students came up to me before class, which is good, so I'm aware, but we've sort of my knee, I've done some in my knee, my hip, I've done something. And the things I was teaching didn't require anyone to do anything that would harm themselves. Everyone would be able to sort of adjust to what they needed, at least that was my intention. So I tried to explain that, but it really occurred to me, you know, if anyone has a physical, different abilities or struggles, there's what place do they have within these context? How can they continue dancing and things? It' And it's really, it's really important to Or maybe not important, but how do we appreciate those kind of coming together and dancing, which allows for that, in a way that's why, for me, perhaps, when people are asked, oh, what's your dance style or what's your thing and and it's frustrating because if I were to be prescriptive, then I wouldn't be able to be so inclusive of different types of bodies, hopefully, and different types of physical ability. I think. too grand. And that's not any shade on people who work with style, I think you can do that in very mindful ways as well.. But how how you create openings that remain open is very difficult thing. But when it happens, when you have a community that can give it a chance and stay there and keep on pushing themselves and be with the changes and the shifts and the things, and still, yeah. it's quite something. But how was it to dance with me, Neil? 


Neil Paris:

Oh. 


PETER:

How How was it for us to be together? I mean, this was marvelously. Some of the stamping, and the sort of, the lunges and the shapes and the I it was so beautiful, and to be in relationships with that it was really fantastic. I was quite. I was quite surprised. I was really happily surprised to find those connections and stuff. But how was it for you? 


Neil Paris:

I mean, it was it was great. It was slightly, it was. It'sdd, isn't it? Because it's like 16 and a long time has gone. And I think I've noticed this with other people that have worked with that suddenly your back to them as long as you've had a good relationship with them, it just feels like, well, yeah, no time at all as part of. 


PETER:

Yes.. 


Neil Paris:

I think what I felt slightly restrictive was that I knew I was I was kind of still. I still had an eye on the the session. And I think if it hadn't have been have been even numbers and you hadn't had to work with Helen, I think our experience would have been very different. And at one point I was thinking, right, the two of us are going to be doing the same thing. So I kind of stuck in the background a little bit and allowed myself to. But they were flashes there when there were just moments I clashing, oh my God, there he is. There's he's training. There's your frame and that took me right back to like when you were in the workshop, when you were in Course C, when you were in and just also. It was funny because at one point I got really inhibited because I was like, oh, it's proper dancing." That kind of, because that's naturally in your body still. 


PETER:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 


Neil Paris:

And I hope it's okay that it's within your body. 


PETER:

Yes, 


Neil Paris:

in your fifth and everything that you naturally fall into Whereas that's not part of my natural vocabulary. But, yeah, I don't know, I was thinking, I'm actually. And I think I was reflecting on how I must have felt when I used when I was.. When we were working together, I was a fabulous beat. And I don't I move better now than I did that.. And I'm, you know, 16 years older. Yeah, but I'm moving in. I think I'm moving in better now. And I had moments where I suddenly felt myself tighten up a little bit.. And getting square. Yeah, like,Ah, come on. And I think,Oh, this is really odd. Is it just because Pete't annoying? And you're suddenly in like, suddenly that strange dance hierarchy kicked in because you remember, you in favor Peter, I was coming in from the theater, the kind of theater who's done some intens dance practice and I was amongst all these conservatives are trained. So I was always wanting to twice as long to learn the steps and always wanting.little flashes, little flashes of that came back. But yeah, I mean, and you're and I didn't remember you just that ability for you to flick. change, change, change, change. Yes, change, change. Which I'm much better at. But I still don't have. And that was a That was his marvelous to watch that and go, Oh, look. Look at that, look at that. He's gone from this to this to back to this, and it's the legs and everything, and, it was Oh, that It was lovely to watch. 


PETER:

so sweet for you to say it. I mean, and you're right. 


Neil Paris:

And also, actually, yeah, just going back to you. Now, have we been discussing how you were very young? Yeah, dancer when you came out when you had a lot of kind of energy that was in lots of different areas in terms of the questions that you had around and the questions you had around this. And there's actually a maturity You've still got all the energy, but there is a maturity there now that wasn't naturally there.. When you were coming out at what do you say? 


PETER:

21, I think. 


Neil Paris:

21 And you'd had that actually with Rambert that was. Your artist was there we all saw and then. And that had a kind of. I would never say it had a wildness to it, but it had a. used the term last night you were saying about radical. You had a radicalness in your movement as well. And that was less. It was less. Yeah, you're older. And it was, oh, we' we're both older, aren't we? 


PETER:

It is nice. It is nice. I mean, and Michael actually said to me when we left, like, if you could just ground yourself. And I never fully understood what that meant, but it is a curse, what you're talking about, the thing of having technical training, because there's a beauty and a stylistic quality that you have. That, yeah,. It's not that I've been ruined, but I'm.. I'm I'm puted for the same shapes, and they's forward so readily into the body. And I can control it as well. And maybe that's also hopefully that's some of the maturity is that I can choose now when I allow it, when I don't allow it, and that it's not just, I am when I'm dancing, I am this. And I think that I've really, in a recent years, really started to enjoy is choosing whereabouts I'm going to dance. and play. And yeah, I can yeah, I can go from one world straight into another world. They're all sort of there, and still, like I said, when I came in and we did that sort of quick warm up, and then going through your practices and getting into the improvisation, I felt like, yeah, a huge shift and opening into worlds, which weren't there before. Definitely before we started dancing, but I't always readily available. So for me, it was just so beautiful to sort of be in dialogue with all those things, all those different places. And it's so kind of you to speak so nicely of my movement. 


Neil Paris:

Oh, no. I mean, it's. It's.. Because they are the slight irony is, for those of us that don't have that kind of body knowledge that you have, will, even now, we not searching for it, but I know even when I'm moving in here, I tend to like, you know, I tend to like fluid flow. But I know that I need, I know that also, I kind of sometimes the aesthetic bit comes in. and you're like, well, straight, you know, where is or it? Where is that? extension? Where are the extensions? Where is where is your weight? And those, and I have a much greater appreciation. I think I always had an appreciation with technical. I always understood why it was necessary, like, you're going to just.. 


PETER:

knocking me out. 


Neil Paris:

You're gonna, you mean, you can die. No but you're gonna're gonna get hurt, but the more it's gone on, yeah, the more I have. I've also appreciated the feeling of it. Yeah. Yeah. The feeling of knowing I'm pretty much. This feels nice. It feels right. And I think at one point I was like, I'll keeping up with him. 


PETER:

You were. 


Neil Paris:

I know. And so there was this, like, I felt there was a parity and evenness, which I guess if you look back again when we first met, there probably wasn't a parity at all, technically movement wise. And also as you kind of said, I was this old member of a company who'd kind of been charged with, 


PETER:

taking care. 


Neil Paris:

Kind of taking care at one Yeah, I suppose. 


PETER:

That's how it. I mean, in a nice way, that's how it 


Neil Paris:

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And so there was the, but here, they felt like actually just that's true. We just we just dance artists now in the same room. Yeah, true. And that was a really nice really nice kind of a little moment of going, yeah, there's that's yeah that's this level now. 


PETER:

When you come home and you start speaking to your father in the same the same level, this strangeness to that. 


Neil Paris:

Yeah, because you know, you've done so much since then, you've got this whole other..stuff going on. 


PETER:

Yeah yeah, But it and yet still it resonates with me so much that time. It's still.. It's so central. And it's funny, isn't it? You can't really erase a past. And like technical training, you can't just get rid of it and there's I often find myself in so not arguments, but conversations around what is needed with technical training and stuff and I am such an advocate for like if you can find beauty and nuance and quality and texture within your range, that's there's no necessity for you to be a brilliant technical dancer with super range and possibility and virtuosity. And yet, I get it as well. Like you say, there is a joy to learning that step or to having the possibility to extend, to a certain degree. And like the cautious mature Peter is now sort of saying maybe there is a balance. There' There's a measure of those things. Even though I'd love to imagine dancers being this thing that is boundless, that has no commitment to a certain regime, that anyone has to potential to engage with in some way, regardless who they are, where they are, maybe even just the extent that dance is such a big phenomena in the world, you have a relationship to it and that in itself is already a paramount to what dance can be and how you are being creative with it. Even if it is that thing of “I could never do that.” 


Neil Paris:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 


PETER:

And it's beyond what I could do. That's too, whatever, and distanceant. But that's that's a relationship and sort of mediating those things. Anyway, now I'm trailing off. 


Neil Paris:

No, I think I just want to the loo, actually a pause, but I was going to say, if something that just propped up to me when we just you were then talking about that, if you can find beauty and you can find this and find texture. And I think some of the things that I realized is what I'm doing now a big word. It's really experiential. 


PETER:

Yes. That's lovely. 


Neil Paris:

What we're doing should feel good for you as these people that are working with my session is ultimately, it should feel great to do this. And I don't mean great endorphing high pump. because that's a whole other thing and that can be manipulated so that people can leave a session feeling like, wow. It should feel fantastic to be moving like in the first layer, when what you're doing is just tuning in. If you can find, if that feels great then that feels great. And the fact that you find your extension, it should feel great, hopefully, before you're worrying about when it looks like. And I think working with the people that I'm working with is I want you to. It should feel good to do. Ultimately, it should feel good to do. It might not feel so good when I'm nagging you about your elbow or your wrist. But you've asked me to do that, which is what they're doing. Neil, 


PETER:

could you look at that?


Neil Paris:

We really want you to.. We want some more corrections. Oh, really? I'm like yeah, yeah, I think we need to get back. Okay. So then it's like, Jill wrists. Jill wrists. Roz, up. Stand up. Yeah. You know, but they seem as though they've got to the point where they're like, yeah, I want. And you know, talking about that's how's the thing is, knowing how embodied your training has been, you know how long it takes to unpack it, to undo it. And for some of these people, they're getting that they're going, oh, yeah, wrist, wrist. But it's their natural. 


PETER:

Yeah, yeah


Neil Paris:

it's their, But hopefully there's interest and an experience and fascination with the fact that you're becoming more aware of that. Just you, you know, and that bigger picture thing of, like, your body isn't fixed. Our bodies aren't fixed at any point in our life. Elements of it will be fixed, but you can change it. You can change it. And there's an empowerment there. You can be empowered to change your body. And even if. Even if it is just that you learn that that is that's extended and not that. In my grander scheme of thinking about what is the value of dance, what is it, the value of movement is like, well, you can change your body. It's in your in your power to change it. And this is a way you can do it. It's not necessarily going to the gym, but you can do it. But the way I think movement and dance works is it's so holistic in terms of it should. It's working on you're the way I'm trying to work with the imagination, the power of your imagination, your body, and then also your ability to express the fact that you can express yourself. You don't mean an audience to thank you for it. No. But hopefully there's value in just expressing it in a room. 


PETER:

No I'd love that. 


Neil Paris:

And then, to a partner in the room. Yeah. And then to the group. And then when you're ready to an audience. Because a part of me in my romantic thing is like, there's a group of people out there who want to see this. Yeah. They will thank and I do say this to them. I said, they are going to thank you for this. We had to the thing we did a couple of weeks ago where, yeah, three hours together, cross arts, musicians, dancers, painters, poets, put something together, invite an audience. I only even like half a dozen people. But the point was really, that the group knew that they were going have to put something together, so we did. And it was one of the dancers's neighbors that'd never been to anything like this before in their life. and it was just they did the slot of things. He said "I was really moved by that?".. And, you kind of anyone says, "No, I don't know why.". I found that really moving. And that's that thing that, you know, the romantic, it's like, yes. That's what kind of sound can do it as well. Yeah. But there's no, there's no, there's no like lexicon. We're not using words. We're not trying to paint a picture. There is a group of people moving, and there's sound, but in that someone is being affected physically. Yeah. 


PETER:

And I love it because I've had such amazing experiences. I've loved dancing, beside you at Fabulous Beast. And intermittent time, all this time dancing with you and the memory of being in those places and those experiences and carrying those with me in every improvisation. 


Neil Paris:

Yeah,. 


PETER:

And then to do it again here, the experience is just, it's overwhelming, it's such a glorious thing to have and to have had. So thank you so much.'s 


Neil Paris:

Peter its an absolute pleasure to be dancing with you and a girl guides up. 


PETER:

It's a beautiful girl guide hut. 


Neil Paris:

So we’ve We've gone from the Coliseum stage. Yeah. There a girl guide hut. 


PETER:

But then then before that, we were in yoga retreat. 


Neil Paris:

Yeah But that's also part of it is that this is the, you know, if you've got a reasonable space, 


PETER:

yeah, you can do it. 


Neil Paris:

It's the connection with the movement and the music and the person that you're with and it should hopefully, for these guys, their bedrooms isn't there.


PETER:

And that's also the purpose of the podcast is that I can come to Cromer and go to a girls's guys hut and capture a little bit of that. And if not share it with thousands of people to have it as a memory that is sort of of this moment in this time. And if people do want to sort of reach out to you, is there How would they go about that? Where do they go? 


Neil Paris:

probably have the email me because I don't have anything out there online at the moment. 


PETER:

Well, then I can put a contact. Yeah, put it on by all means, 


Neil Paris:

yeah. Yeah, and Pete, it is amazing that you're here at this particular time because I'm like a transitioning point from one role to another, and the fact that you we're having this conversation and I'm having to try and articulate what it is, it's really helpful that people helping me to articulate what it is that and to talk about these experiences, because they were. They were. They were fabulous. 


PETER:

They're fabulous, fabulous beasts, yeah. 


Neil Paris:

They were, and... Yeah, to talk about them with you and to be in a position now are enough times are lapsed though. I can talk about them. Um. in a kind of moderated way, so much has been processed about them that I can talk about them with joy as much as I can with either regret or awe.. The things that that weren't so good, but clouded a lot of that experience for quite a while. And I think that's moved on. So to be able to connect back with you who was we all knew at the time. That's why we were there to look after you, because we knew that a lot of people were coming into quite a difficult environment. So to be able to sit and laugh and yeah laugh about those times and really talk about the valuenesses. It was wonderful. 


PETER:

If I can only return some of what you gave to me, yeah, like you say, it was fantastical. And there's a sadness a sense of loss for me of what could have been of what was in a lot of ways. But more than anything, there's a richness and that we can live with it together and continue to. That's fantastic. 


Neil Paris:

But you have to remember, you brought in an energy that you, there was this 21 year old, 22 year old, and I think most of us were in our 40s by then. And you brought this in and it's like, oh, my God, look at that. Look at that, look at that exuberance, and that conviction that you had about,cause you had conviction in your feelings about… They were questions that you had, and it seemed like there was quite a lot of struggle in the questions about, what is dance? What is this? What am I? What kind of what kind of artist am I? And you seem like you were going through all of that, but to witness that like, there you go, that's the future. 


PETER:

Oh, thank you, you. And here we are in the future. 


Neil Paris:

You brought all that, and you brought a lot of challenge to us in the old heads and it was yeah, if you remember, you remember that. And obviously, you know, what happened in the constellations and stuff was extraordinary and. yeah. Taking aside where it went, again, to have, when I think back about going through a process like that with Alejandro, and what happened in that constellation, and the context of it is still quite mind blowing from there. 


PETER:

Yeah, phenomenal. Phenomenal. 


Neil Paris:

And it's. You know lot of the time, we can't explain that. No. No, And it was because I think, as we were talking yesterday, but I think because of the kind of person that you were, you didn't question what's happening. No. You didn't question the sudden of your body was starting to do this. You just allowed it, I guess, to happen. Yeah. You had no idea what was the context, whereas some of us did but then that's. somebody else probably would have blocked it and stopped it. True, true. I think a different kind of person would have blocked that could have easily have. But you didn't, because.. I mean.. Well, I don't know. Maybe I'm projecting. 


PETER:

I'm just glad you remembered it, because never forget for me, it was so crazy and I've tried to explain what happened in that room, in what I embodied or what what I felt like I embodied. And then you remembered that specific constellation, because there was, what, 30 of us all doing constellations. I was.. 


Neil Paris:

That was.. You know, that was also one of those moments where you're thinking, "Why is this constellation? You know? And I was always very, very like, "Yep, great, we do it, but there's God, I've never done this before." And how does this work? And then all of a sudden that one was just like,... 


PETER:

Yeah, this is crazy. 


Neil Paris:

But then that's also why you were there, not to the constellation, but, like, that whole process. There's a reason. And for all this this kind of faults and difficulties. He saw something. He just couldn't handle you. 


PETER:

Oh, I thank you, Neil. 


Neil Paris:

And that'ss what we were all worried about, because you knew some of us knew me, you can't handle it in these two... These creative energy. He's a creative energy. He's questioning. There were similarities, you see, because he was a pusher. He pushed back against the system. That was a lot of his energy was about pushing back yeah. And there was a similarity that I felt that you were questioning the system that you were in. You'd have been through this Rambert training. 


PETER:

And the childhood of dyslexia so yeah. 


Neil Paris:

You both had this so maybe there was this kind of he saw something that he recognized. I don't know. but it was just when I didn't think he could handle it. I'm glad he took you on. 


PETER:

Yeah, I'm I' glad my contract lasted at the end. Thank you, Neil. You. And, yeah, we'll continue.


Neil Paris:

Yeah, yeah. Dance again sometime.